Impress

Yet Another Texan Being Sued by PRA

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2 hours ago, cjtx2 said:

It is much easier to lie about personal service because the chances of getting caught are extremely low.

How often do you believe process servers lie?  Does it occur on a regular basis?

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1 hour ago, texasrocker said:

If my statement is inaccurate then show me something more solid than just your opinion and your gross misinterpretation of the rules I posted such as another rule that could override them or a precedent or at the very least a link to an article that you read somewhere.    

  

Sewer service is common everywhere. I found several articles from California, the NY attorney general, etc. Here is a link from a Texas attorney:

https://www.westonlegal.com/debt-lawsuits/service-of-process-in-texas/

The law contemplates fraudulent service when it comes to extrinsic fraud in Bills of Review to fight default judgments.

http://www.jtexconsumerlaw.com/V10N3/V10N3Equitable.pdf

Nobody is actively monitoring process servers to ensure compliance with their code of ethics. The only remedy is to sue them and not enough people go after them (myself included).

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19 minutes ago, cjtx2 said:

Sewer service is common everywhere. I found several articles from California, the NY attorney general, etc. Here is a link from a Texas attorney:

https://www.westonlegal.com/debt-lawsuits/service-of-process-in-texas/

The law contemplates fraudulent service when it comes to extrinsic fraud in Bills of Review to fight default judgments.

http://www.jtexconsumerlaw.com/V10N3/V10N3Equitable.pdf

Nobody is actively monitoring process servers to ensure compliance with their code of ethics. The only remedy is to sue them and not enough people go after them (myself included).

We don’t doubt that sewer service exists.   But your statement that lying about service is broad.   The link you provided did not indicate that it’s a common occurrence in TX.

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1 hour ago, BV80 said:

How often do you believe process servers lie?  Does it occur on a regular basis?

My guess it happens much more often than it is reported.  It probably has to do with the quality and quantity of outdated information they get from JDBs, and instead of skip tracing each individual, they serve whoever lives at the address they were given. It may also have to do with their reputation with certain judges if they were caught lying before, maybe they will try to comply better. But if they know the courtroom is a rubber stamp factory for default judgments, the likelihood of getting caught and getting in trouble is minimal.

There are many ways for process servers to claim there was a misunderstanding. For example, they knock at the door and ask: "Are you John Doe"? and before you have a chance to respond, they drop the papers and say "you've been served". Somehow they heard (or imagined) you said yes or nodded, etc. Otherwise, if they wait for you to say "no, I'm Jack Smith", they quickly say, "Ok, give it to John Doe, he is being served". and leave before you can say I don't know any John Doe, he does not live here or anywhere I know.

So it would be hard to prove intent or bad faith as opposed to human error or miscommunication. The NY attorney general found a pattern for some companies of process servers that falsified affidavits on a regular basis.

 

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3 minutes ago, BV80 said:

We don’t doubt that sewer service exists.   But your statement that lying about service is broad.   The link you provided did not indicate that it’s a common occurrence in TX.

Maybe you missed this from the first link:

Quote

Unfortunately, many people are considered “served” when they never received the lawsuit.  This happens usually when the process server serves the wrong person or leaves the lawsuit at a previous address of the Defendant.

 

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20 minutes ago, cjtx2 said:

Maybe you missed this from the first link:

 

 

20 minutes ago, cjtx2 said:

Unfortunately, many people are considered “served” when they never received the lawsuit.  This happens usually when the process server serves the wrong person or leaves the lawsuit at a previous address of the Defendant.

No, I didn’t miss it.  Serving the wrong person or leaving a lawsuit at a previous address does not necessarily suggest the process servers lied. 

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9 hours ago, cjtx2 said:

Sewer service is common everywhere. I found several articles from California, the NY attorney general, etc. Here is a link from a Texas attorney:

https://www.westonlegal.com/debt-lawsuits/service-of-process-in-texas/

Sewer service not common in Texas because of what I explained to you regarding process serving protocol.  I would like to see even a single documented case that someone was "sewer-served" a petition for a law suit within the last ten years, not mistakenly at the wrong address or something that could be deemed a mistake.  I mean deliberately and deceptively sewer-served as the definition suggests.

That is actually a solicitation from a law firm.  Their one-paragraph statement that reflects what you have been saying also reflects that it is no more than their opinion with no elaboration, statistics, footnotes etc. to back up the statement. 

9 hours ago, cjtx2 said:

The law contemplates fraudulent service when it comes to extrinsic fraud in Bills of Review to fight default judgments.

http://www.jtexconsumerlaw.com/V10N3/V10N3Equitable.pdf

This is an interesting and comprehensive article but as you said it only contemplates and explains the procedure taken if someone has been improperly served.  It does not touch on  your claim that it happens frequently, occasionally, or even at all. 

9 hours ago, cjtx2 said:

My guess it happens much more often than it is reported.

This has been my point in this entire discussion.  Your guesses and opinions are your personal business but to purport them as facts to an impressionable newcomer who is looking for answers is just going to cause them more grief and turmoil than they already are experiencing just from being sued. 

Let it not be forgotten that you also gave this OP completely inaccurate information as to electing to use arbitration after participating in discovery.

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14 hours ago, cjtx2 said:

If there was no discretion, the rule would say "the court must authorize service".

Ah... your looking at the wrong rules. OP is in Justice Court. 

"RULE 513. ALTERNATIVE SERVICE
If the methods under Rule 512 are insufficient to effect service on the defendant, the
plaintiff, or the constable, sheriff, or certified process server if utilized, may make a
request for alternative service. This request must include a sworn statement detailing the
methods attempted under Rule 512. The request shall be that the citation, petition and
documents filed with the petition be:
(a) mailed first class mail to the defendant, and also left at the defendant's residence or other
place where the defendant can probably be found with any person found there who is at
least 16 years of age, or
(b) mailed first class mail to the defendant, and also served by any other method that the
movant feels is reasonably likely to provide the defendant with notice of the suit.
The judge shall determine if the method requested is reasonably likely to provide the
defendant with notice of the suit, and if so, shall approve the service. If not, the requestor
can request a different method."

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14 hours ago, cjtx2 said:

Do you really think all default judgments happen after personal service as stated in the affidavits presented to the courts? 

What evidence do you have that they don't? 

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19 hours ago, Goody_Ouchless said:

Since the purpose of service to inform defendant of case, and defendant has been informed, hasn't the system worked as intended?

In this case, yes. In order for a defendant to try to use the 'improper service' argument, they would have to ignore the service that they believe to be improper. That would lead to a default judgment and the defendant would then have to move to set aside the judgment, and hope the plaintiff didn't actually obtain permission from the court for alternative service. And even if the judgment is set aside, the plaintiff will go right back to file again, and not make the same mistake twice. 

I just never saw any benefit to dodging service unless the SOL is within days of expiring, and that's not very common. 

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4 hours ago, texasrocker said:

Sewer service not common in Texas because of what I explained to you regarding process serving protocol.  I would like to see even a single documented case that someone was "sewer-served" a petition for a law suit within the last ten years, not mistakenly at the wrong address or something that could be deemed a mistake.  I mean deliberately and deceptively sewer-served as the definition suggests.

Your use of mistakenly excuses bad behavior and shows why it is difficult to prosecute fraudster process servers.  A typical process server gets a 10+ year old address from a JDB and without knowing if the person still lives there, which statistically is unlikely, they sign an affidavit falsely stating to that effect: that they know for a fact that defendant lives there. That is as deliberate and deceptive as it gets.

Sewer-service also means that the papers ended up in the sewer after they could not find the person they were looking for.

Bills of Review are the only remedy when you discover after the fact that there is a default judgment against you and it is too late to appeal. The only way to prevail is by proving extrinsic fraud, of which the most common form is sewer service. All you have to do is look for original causes of action labeled "Bill of Review". I prevailed in one of those and had the judgment vacated because the process server signed a bogus affidavit stating she personally served me at a 20 year old address in a different city which I had not even visited in years. So it does happen. It is under-reported and most process servers get away with proven fraud after you prevail in a Bill of Review.

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4 hours ago, Harry Seaward said:

What evidence do you have that they don't? 

Personally, it happened to me. A process server signed an affidavit stating that she personally served me at my residence. The only problem is that I did not even live in that city at the time so it was not my residence. As a matter of fact, I had moved several times since I had lived at that 20 year old address. I proved sewer service and had the judgment vacated as part of the settlement.

I cannot discuss the details because of a NDA, but the default judgment came from a sleazy debt collector attorney working on a contingency basis for a big bank and he used a private process server.

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15 minutes ago, cjtx2 said:

they sign an affidavit falsely stating to that effect: that they know for a fact that defendant lives there.

Again, false. The affidavit from the process server only states the address and that they tried to serve the defendant there. The process server is not responsible to "find" the party being served. They go where the JDB says to go. If the party doesn't live at that address, or if they don't answer the door, that's it. The process server returns the documents to the plaintiff unserved.

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1 minute ago, cjtx2 said:

Personally, it happened to me.

Are you able to understand that your single experience isn't evidence that process servers lie all the time?

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2 hours ago, Harry Seaward said:

evidence that process servers lie all the time?

When I was a Process Server I lied ALL the time - even when the truth was better.

 

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On 3/28/2019 at 4:05 PM, Goody_Ouchless said:
 

When I was a Process Server I lied ALL the time - even when the truth was better.

 

I am done with this.  It has already gone too far. 

I trust that the purpose of informing the OP to discern what is insane information has been served.

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I will be submitting my MTC tomorrow via efile.  Do I need to print and send a copy to the attorney on record or will it be considered service if they get an emailed copy?

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3 hours ago, Impress said:

I will be submitting my MTC tomorrow via efile.  Do I need to print and send a copy to the attorney on record or will it be considered service if they get an emailed copy?

The last part of your MTC is a Certificate of Service, where you state the manner and the date in which you served a true and correct copy of the MTC to the opposing party's attorney. You may state an email, if you are sending a separate email, or within the efile system you can enter the attorney's name and email information and e-serve them. Which basically sends them an email telling them about the document and provides a link to download it. Either way, you must specify in your certificate of service whether you sent an email or e-served them.

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20 hours ago, Impress said:

I will be submitting my MTC tomorrow via efile.  Do I need to print and send a copy to the attorney on record or will it be considered service if they get an emailed copy?

Don't ever send anything to a JDB attorney by any means other than USPS certified mail.

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On 3/28/2019 at 9:39 PM, PLAY MAKER said:

Read the rules.

I think the OP is doing just fine.

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On 3/28/2019 at 9:15 PM, Impress said:

I will be submitting my MTC tomorrow via efile.  Do I need to print and send a copy to the attorney on record or will it be considered service if they get an emailed copy?

I would print and mail a copy and then be sure to include on a separate page with the copy I file with court a Certificate of Service that states that you certify that you have sent a copy to the Plaintiff via USPS first class mail with proper postage affixed.  (Also include a copy of the certificate of service page with the copy you send the attorney).

While email may be accepted by your court, I like to do things the sure way if there is any doubt.  Unless you can find an absolute answer regarding email service, I would just go with mail. A single stamp isn't too expensive.  Yet.

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9 hours ago, fisthardcheese said:

I would print and mail a copy and then be sure to include on a separate page with the copy I file with court a Certificate of Service that states that you certify that you have sent a copy to the Plaintiff via USPS first class mail with proper postage affixed.  (Also include a copy of the certificate of service page with the copy you send the attorney).

While email may be accepted by your court, I like to do things the sure way if there is any doubt.  Unless you can find an absolute answer regarding email service, I would just go with mail. A single stamp isn't too expensive.  Yet.

Nowadays you have to digitally submit everything to the court (including JP courts). At the time you submit your document(s), there is an option to e-serve, where the system sends an email to the attorney with a link to the document that was filed with the court. The court clerk then either accepts your pleading or tells you something is wrong or missing and you need to make the changes and re-submit, serve again.

Most attorneys have their email addresses registered with the e-filing system and once you submit a response or anything,  your email address is also registered with the system (for that case) so you can get e-served, just like attorneys do.

The higher you go in the court system, the clerks get more picky about your document(s). It has to be a PDF, but sometimes they will ask you for a searchable file, and if there are any exhibits attached, the file must have (at a minimum) bookmarks to those exhibits.

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In case anyone is interested, I filed the MTC for arbitration.  The law firm was reasonably quick to get back to me, though I wasn't quick to respond (life got in the way).  Once I did communicate with them, I asked for mutual walkaway with prejudice and TL deletion.  They took it back to their client who agreed.  Paperwork has been signed and I got an email from the lawyer today with a copy of the paperwork they are filing with the court for dismissal. 

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