Vinsey

How to Navigate Court Summons for CC Debt

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35 minutes ago, BV80 said:

I don’t see what could be gained.  They don’t actually demand payment.  It could have been sent by mistake.  

@BV80 I thought it was wise to have you weigh in on any possible benefit to any potential FDCPA violation that may occur during this process.  About the only gain I can think of is that a written dispute might show up on the CRAs--if that's of any use at all. I know in my state, evidence of account disputes may help to refute the account stated claim. I just didn't want OP to lose out if anything should be done to insure any rights--even if it never reaches that point. 

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46 minutes ago, Brotherskeeper said:

@BV80 I thought it was wise to have you weigh in on any possible benefit to any potential FDCPA violation that may occur during this process.  About the only gain I can think of is that a written dispute might show up on the CRAs--if that's of any use at all. I know in my state, evidence of account disputes may help to refute the account stated claim. I just didn't want OP to lose out if anything should be done to insure any rights--even if it never reaches that point. 

I’m not sure how much weight it carries if the debt is not disputed until after one is already sued.  

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1 minute ago, BV80 said:

I’m not sure how much weight it carries if the debt is not disputed until after one is already sued.  

Right. Unless the lawsuit is dismissed without prejudice, then the CRAs indicate the dispute. It appears that the collection side of the law firm doesn't know what the legal side is doing. 

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Just now, Brotherskeeper said:

It appears that the collection side of the law firm doesn't know what the legal side is doing. 

Yep.  😁  

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On 3/1/2019 at 2:39 PM, Brotherskeeper said:

@Vinsey Is this the first letter like this (with the dispute within 30 days language)  you received from PRA about this debt? Did you ever dispute this debt in writing with PRA? @BV80 does Vinsey gain anything at this point in the lawsuit by responding to this letter to dispute this debt? 

@Vinsey  Can you answer the above questions?  Is this the first letter you received from the law firm other than the lawsuit?  Did you send anything to them prior to the lawsuit?

Does the dollar amount on this collection letter match the exact amount they are suing you for?

 

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6 hours ago, fisthardcheese said:

@Vinsey  Can you answer the above questions?  Is this the first letter you received from the law firm other than the lawsuit?  Did you send anything to them prior to the lawsuit?

Does the dollar amount on this collection letter match the exact amount they are suing you for?

 

My apologies for the late response - I've been having difficulty positing via the mobile version. Yes, this is the first letter I've received from Weber (formally Fenton Law Firm.) I've recieved a couple of these letters from Portfolio Recovery in the past and did dispute them, but that was before I was sued. The dollar amount is the exact same. The only contact with Weber I've had prior to this letter is when I spoke to one of their associates per a local attorney's advice after my consultation with them (stupid move but nothing damaging was said on my part). That's how I found out Fenton Law Firm (PRA's attorney) changed their name to Weber at the beginning of last month.

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10 hours ago, Vinsey said:

My apologies for the late response - I've been having difficulty positing via the mobile version. Yes, this is the first letter I've received from Weber (formally Fenton Law Firm.) I've recieved a couple of these letters from Portfolio Recovery in the past and did dispute them, but that was before I was sued. The dollar amount is the exact same. The only contact with Weber I've had prior to this letter is when I spoke to one of their associates per a local attorney's advice after my consultation with them (stupid move but nothing damaging was said on my part). That's how I found out Fenton Law Firm (PRA's attorney) changed their name to Weber at the beginning of last month.

In that case, if this were me, I would send the short and sweet dispute letter just for giggles.  I think by the least sophisticated consumer standard they are in a pretty grey area on this one.  It could be something to put in your arbitration filing after your MTC is granted.  I'd just like to see how they respond to a dispute letter (if at all).

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On 3/4/2019 at 7:19 AM, fisthardcheese said:

In that case, if this were me, I would send the short and sweet dispute letter just for giggles.  I think by the least sophisticated consumer standard they are in a pretty grey area on this one.  It could be something to put in your arbitration filing after your MTC is granted.  I'd just like to see how they respond to a dispute letter (if at all).

That sounds like a fun thing to do lol. 

 

So my court date is tomorrow and I have everything gathered together in a folder including the AAA forms to show I'm serious. Lets cross our fingers and hope they just want to dismiss tomorrow and not drag it on. I went to a day of court just to observe how this particular court works and it seems the judge just calls the names and sends them outside to try and settle before they reach her. It was really sad watching so many people not there when called and the attorneys just standing there with a big list asking for default judgement against every single one of them. I am so glad I reached out to you all back when I got served. 

 

On another note I received a letter from PRA trying to collect on a separate debt just yesterday. I'm waiting to see how this one pans out to see what im going to do with the new one.

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1 hour ago, Vinsey said:

So my court date is tomorrow and I have everything gathered together in a folder including the AAA forms to show I'm serious. Lets cross our fingers and hope they just want to dismiss tomorrow and not drag it on.

Good luck tomorrow! You have taken time and effort to be prepared. Let's hope plaintiff's attorney has not done the same. 

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23 hours ago, MikeB35 said:

Any updates @Vinsey?

So my Motion hearing was scheduled half an hour after my regular hearing, so when the attorney repping PRA was going through the 15 or so people on his list out in the hall he got to me and I told him about my pending MTC and he was like okay well I'll meet you in there. Back in the court room I was called for my motion and sent back out to talk to him AGAIN. A little annoying because the only the thing the judge is doing is calling names, I kind of figured I would get called and go up and state my case for my MTC and it would either be granted or not. I went out and talked to the attorney and he told me that its a "Chicken or the egg" situation where I have to file for arbitration with AAA first. I told him "I have filled out forms for filing for arbitration with AAA right here with me ready to file, I am only waiting for the judge to grant the motion." He then proceeded to go talk to the clerk in the courtroom for a minute and then came back to me and said that they don't oppose arbitration so I have to make an order for arbitration and send it to them and they will sign it and send it back to me for me to turn in to the court to be signed by the judge, and in the mean time my court date was reset for May 6th. He also told me that PRA may at any time elect to dismiss the case. I made an order for arbitration and sent it certified mail to the attorneys office so we will see. 

 

Court didn't quite go how I had planned it in my head but I don't see it as a loss or anything, just a weird day.

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4 hours ago, Vinsey said:

He also told me that PRA may at any time elect to dismiss the case.

I think this is the first time we've heard a report like this. Seems like a strange thing for them to say at this stage. They usually play the "arbitration is very expensive" tape during the initial hearing negotiations. They must be realizing it's more profitable to just get in and out when the "A" word is mentioned. 

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4 hours ago, Vinsey said:

they don't oppose arbitration so I have to make an order for arbitration and send it to them and they will sign it and send it back to me for me to turn in to the court to be signed by the judge, and in the mean time my court date was reset for May 6th.

By doing this, the attorney avoided a hearing and your judge from ruling on your MTC arb and stay the case.

4 hours ago, Vinsey said:

He also told me that PRA may at any time elect to dismiss the case. I made an order for arbitration and sent it certified mail to the attorneys office so we will see. 

xpopcornx

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1 minute ago, Brotherskeeper said:

By doing this, the attorney avoided a hearing and your judge from ruling on your MTC arb and stay the case.

xpopcornx

Really? What should I have done instead? It was my understanding that this was the proper course of action and the judge wasn't going to see me at that point. 

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4 hours ago, Vinsey said:

said that they don't oppose arbitration so I have to make an order for arbitration and send it to them and they will sign it and send it back to me for me to turn in to the court to be signed by the judge

Just do that - send letter saying "per our conversation, consider this my election of arbitration and include a Motion Staying the case pending arbitration that both parties agreed to," with a place for them to sign. I agree with Harry - he probably went back to office and shot an email to client saying "he is electing arbitration, please confirm desire to dismiss."

 

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2 minutes ago, Goody_Ouchless said:

Just do that - send letter saying "per our conversation, consider this my election of arbitration and include a Motion Staying the case pending arbitration that both parties agreed to," with a place for them to sign. I agree with Harry - he probably went back to office and shot an email to client saying "he is electing arbitration, please confirm desire to dismiss."

 

Damn. I already sent the letter to them immediately after my hearing, but that wording would have been great. I should be getting their response within the next couple of days. 

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5 hours ago, Vinsey said:

He then proceeded to go talk to the clerk in the courtroom for a minute

Did he tell you what he told the clerk?

5 hours ago, Vinsey said:

then came back to me and said that they don't oppose arbitration so I have to make an order for arbitration and send it to them and they will sign it and send it back to me for me to turn in to the court to be signed by the judge

IANAL. This sounds to me like a [Proposed] Order for your motion to compel arbitration and stay the case pending arbitration, with a section to include language that they stipulate to the motion and waive the hearing, with a space for the attorney to sign beneath.  At the bottom of most proposed orders, it has: 

IT IS SO ORDERED.

Entered this day ___of March, 2019.  Then a line for the judge's signature; under the sig line should be the judge's name and court. The judge usually crosses out the [Proposed] in the title. There's an example of a Tennessee order at the end of this filing:

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/attorneygeneral/documents/foi/purdue/purdue-motion-5-15-2018.pdf

1 hour ago, Vinsey said:

Really? What should I have done instead? It was my understanding that this was the proper course of action and the judge wasn't going to see me at that point. 

I'm sorry for any confusion. I think you handled yourself very well. I don't think that attorney wanted you to present your MTC to the judge, with the probable result of the attorney leaving court with an order to arbtirate and case stay. For a debt of $2,948, their costs to arbitrate rise very fast into the process; yours don't. 

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4 hours ago, Brotherskeeper said:

Did he tell you what he told the clerk?

No he didn't. It looked as though he was conferring with the clerk about needing an order to continue arbitration. Hindsight is 20/20 but I feel like I myself should have gone up and talked to the clerk and asked to have it seen by the judge.

4 hours ago, Brotherskeeper said:

I'm sorry for any confusion. I think you handled yourself very well. I don't think that attorney wanted you to present your MTC to the judge, with the probable result of the attorney leaving court with an order to arbtirate and case stay. For a debt of $2,948, their costs to arbitrate rise very fast into the process; yours don't.

Let's hope I get some respondence in the mail soon saying they dismiss. Or rather they sign the form and I get my MTC granted leading to mutual dismissal being required lol.

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Its good to see minds come together, and offer their knowledge to help out. I think its safe to say this will turn out successful on your behalf. Keep us posted on any updates. Good work!

 

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On 3/14/2019 at 4:55 PM, Vinsey said:

Really? What should I have done instead? It was my understanding that this was the proper course of action and the judge wasn't going to see me at that point. 

I would have told him I am ready to see the judge.

What he did, was effectively kick the can down the road.  This is the latest tactic when faced with arbitration.  They are forcing you to show up to yet another court hearing, just hoping that somehow you fail to make it to court next time so they can get their coveted default judgement.  That's all this is.  He essentially made you write up a stipulated agreement to arbitrate, which is was 100% unnecessary since you already had an MTC written up that the judge could have signed.  There is no difference in going into the court room that day and saying "we do not oppose arbitration" and letting the judge grant it, or making you write up a new stipulated agreement. Except, in addition to forcing you to go back to court, this also gives them the out of dismissing the case before your MTC is granted allowing it to be without prejudice and not giving you any leverage to force a "with prejudice" dismissal.

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2 hours ago, fisthardcheese said:

I would have told him I am ready to see the judge.

What he did, was effectively kick the can down the road.  This is the latest tactic when faced with arbitration.  They are forcing you to show up to yet another court hearing, just hoping that somehow you fail to make it to court next time so they can get their coveted default judgement.  That's all this is.  He essentially made you write up a stipulated agreement to arbitrate, which is was 100% unnecessary since you already had an MTC written up that the judge could have signed.  There is no difference in going into the court room that day and saying "we do not oppose arbitration" and letting the judge grant it, or making you write up a new stipulated agreement. Except, in addition to forcing you to go back to court, this also gives them the out of dismissing the case before your MTC is granted allowing it to be without prejudice and not giving you any leverage to force a "with prejudice" dismissal.

This confirms my suspicions which makes me sick, but I chalk it up to being part of my learning experience. Shoulda coulda woulda as they say. I'm most likely going to have to do this all over again for two other debts that are coming around to get me before their SOL, so I'll be even better and wiser next time!

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2 hours ago, fisthardcheese said:
 

I would have told him I am ready to see the judge.

What he did, was effectively kick the can down the road.  This is the latest tactic when faced with arbitration.  They are forcing you to show up to yet another court hearing, just hoping that somehow you fail to make it to court next time so they can get their coveted default judgement.  That's all this is.  He essentially made you write up a stipulated agreement to arbitrate, which is was 100% unnecessary since you already had an MTC written up that the judge could have signed.  There is no difference in going into the court room that day and saying "we do not oppose arbitration" and letting the judge grant it, or making you write up a new stipulated agreement. Except, in addition to forcing you to go back to court, this also gives them the out of dismissing the case before your MTC is granted allowing it to be without prejudice and not giving you any leverage to force a "with prejudice" dismissal.

It may be just anecdotal evidence, but it does seem like that's the newest pernicious JDB tactic, since their arb motion oppo responses are so weak. I apologize if you've already covered this in your epic arb thread, but if you haven't, adding the above post to it would give advance warning. 

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2 hours ago, Vinsey said:

This confirms my suspicions which makes me sick, but I chalk it up to being part of my learning experience. Shoulda coulda woulda as they say. I'm most likely going to have to do this all over again for two other debts that are coming around to get me before their SOL, so I'll be even better and wiser next time!

A learning experience is never a wasted opportunity.  All of us here have made similar mistakes or missed chances. It is the only way we learned what we know to share with others here.  Now you know how to handle future cases and you will also deal with this attorney more sure-handedly in this case as well.

2 hours ago, Brotherskeeper said:

It may be just anecdotal evidence, but it does seem like that's the newest pernicious JDB tactic, since their arb motion oppo responses are so weak. I apologize if you've already covered this in your epic arb thread, but if you haven't, adding the above post to it would give advance warning. 

This is a good suggestion.  I will edit the arbitration mega post soon and include this along with a few other tweaks and notices we have learned from the most recent cases as well.

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13 minutes ago, fisthardcheese said:

A learning experience is never a wasted opportunity.  All of us here have made similar mistakes or missed chances. It is the only way we learned what we know to share with others here.  Now you know how to handle future cases and you will also deal with this attorney more sure-handedly in this case as well.

xkingx 

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