Joopsman Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 I have a medical bill that went to collections and I have been served by the JDB. The total including filing and service fee is a little over $300 so I am fighting this on principle as much as anything. One thing they claim is that I owed THEM (the JDB) on the day that I was seen by the doctor. I feel like I could have the case dismissed based on that claim alone since I certainly didn't owe THEM until they purchased the debt. Failing that, I plan to fight based on their lack of standing by objecting to any affidavit they may present as hearsay. Is this a reasonable strategy in small claims or will the judge likely accept any napkin scribble they submit to the court? They have nothing at all attached to the complaint. No record of any doctor visit. No bill. No copy of anything I signed. Just their claim that I owe them money. I know that JDBs' bread and butter is default judgments but they don't seem to have any case at all. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody_Ouchless Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 You owe "them" the same as the medical practice - they became the creditor when they bought the debt. I would suspect that they will present complete computerized records, as opposed to napkin scribble. @Clydesmom is local expert on medical debt, but I believe this stuff is pretty easy for them to prove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joopsman Posted March 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 15 minutes ago, Goody_Ouchless said: You owe "them" the same as the medical practice - they became the creditor when they bought the debt. I would suspect that they will present complete computerized records, as opposed to napkin scribble. @Clydesmom is local expert on medical debt, but I believe this stuff is pretty easy for them to prove. Unless they have a witness from the OC, it is just hearsay, though. I can claim that I purchased a debt and produce "records" but unless I have a witness from the OC that can corroborate that it was sold to me, it is just a claim with no merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clydesmom Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Joopsman said: One thing they claim is that I owed THEM (the JDB) on the day that I was seen by the doctor. That is correct. The date of the debt is the date of service when it comes to medical collections. That is because the bill comes due on that day regardless of insurance and how long it takes to pay etc. The provider is entitled to be paid in full on the date of service. If the debt has indeed been sold the JDB steps into the place of the provider under basic contract law which does not change the date of service no more than it would change the date of default on payment if this were a loan and the JDB had bought the debt from the bank. 1 hour ago, Joopsman said: I feel like I could have the case dismissed based on that claim alone since I certainly didn't owe THEM until they purchased the debt. Not going to happen. No judge is going to fall for that. It is basic contract law. 1 hour ago, Joopsman said: They have nothing at all attached to the complaint. Oregon may not require evidence to be attached to the complaint. Not all states do. Doesn't mean they won't have it for court. 1 hour ago, Joopsman said: Let me know your thoughts. You need to settle this and here is why: This debt many not have been sold outright. Oregon is one of the few states that does allow a collection agency to sue on behalf of the original creditor or medical provider. If that is the case their job gets even easier. HIPAA does not apply to court cases so the provider can and will turn over the bills, medical records and anything else that is needed to prove their case against you. If the CA is suing you then they have a business relationship with the provider and it covered under HIPAA as well. 1 hour ago, Joopsman said: Unless they have a witness from the OC, it is just hearsay, though. Hearsay does not apply to medical records. They are self authenticating and they will not need an affidavit or live witness to attest to them. Not to mention do you really want to face the provider who took care of you and you stiffed on payment in court? 1 hour ago, Joopsman said: Is this a reasonable strategy in small claims or will the judge likely accept any napkin scribble they submit to the court? They are not going to come to court with "scribble" and try this case. Your other problem to the attempt at hearsay argument(s) is that the Judge can (and probably will) cut you off and ask several basic questions. 1. Are you Mr. Bob Joopsman as listed on this bill and these records? 2. What is your date of birth? [compares answer to records in front of them] 3. What is your current address? Is it the same as the one on this bill? [shows bill to Defendant] 4. Do you owe Dr Himmelfarb [scans records again] $XXX.XX for the [office visit/hemorrhoidectomy/what ever you had done] on xx-xx-2018? 5. Why didn't you pay the bill before now? What is your plan then? You cannot lie. Once you answer honestly then it is a slam dunk judgment for the Plaintiff. And yes the Judge is allowed to question you and YES you do have to answer. Now you not only have the medical debt but court fees, attorney fees, and post judgment interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joopsman Posted March 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 Well that’s not good news. What would be a reasonable settlement in a case like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clydesmom Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Joopsman said: What would be a reasonable settlement in a case like this? You could get lucky and they simply take the amount owed the provider and court costs. They could want the entire amount sued for plus expenses since they had to go that far. If this is your out of pocket portion after insurance was billed (deductible or not) they cannot settle for less it is illegal rebating and a violation of the contract with the insurer. Did you use insurance for the care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joopsman Posted March 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 22 minutes ago, Clydesmom said: You could get lucky and they simply take the amount owed the provider and court costs. They could want the entire amount sued for plus expenses since they had to go that far. If this is your out of pocket portion after insurance was billed (deductible or not) they cannot settle for less it is illegal rebating and a violation of the contract with the insurer. Did you use insurance for the care? Yes, I used insurance but it doesn’t cover anything until the deductible is met. This is small claims; are they able to ask for atty fees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clydesmom Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 24 minutes ago, Joopsman said: I used insurance but it doesn’t cover anything until the deductible is met. Then unfortunately you will not get the amount owed to the provider reduced. It is illegal rebating. You MIGHT get them to settle for that and court costs. 26 minutes ago, Joopsman said: This is small claims; are they able to ask for atty fees? Oregon actually has a small claims division for cases up to $750 but does not allow attorney representation. The problem you have is if the provider/CA paid an attorney to draft and file the complaint they might be able to seek that as court costs. The financial agreement you signed with the provider spells out what you are legally responsible for paying if it gets to this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody_Ouchless Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 21 hours ago, Joopsman said: I can claim that I purchased a debt and produce "records" but unless I have a witness from the OC that can corroborate that it was sold to me, it is just a claim with no merit. Their records are just like any receipt. Home Depot will take a return on the wrong light bulbs without you having to provide live testimony from the original checkout clerk. Why would this be any different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joopsman Posted March 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 On 3/7/2019 at 11:52 AM, Goody_Ouchless said: Their records are just like any receipt. Home Depot will take a return on the wrong light bulbs without you having to provide live testimony from the original checkout clerk. Why would this be any different? Because it is a court of law and not a returns counter at Home Depot. How can business B submit business A's records as their own? They can submit them and if I do not object on grounds that it is hearsay then it is accepted by the court. If, as Clydesmom says, that in Oregon that the JDB has all the rights that the OC has when it comes to medical collections (in other words they ARE THE SAME as the OC, not considered a 3rd party) then the objection is meaningless since they ARE the corroborating witness for the records. Even at Home Depot they could question the validity of a receipt (perhaps it is damaged, illegible, etc.). In that case, maybe I remember the clerk that I purchased the item from and they also recall the transaction and can validate the receipt. Make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Seaward Posted March 9, 2019 Report Share Posted March 9, 2019 3 hours ago, Joopsman said: How can business B submit business A's records as their own? Adoptive Business Records Doctrine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joopsman Posted March 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2019 55 minutes ago, Harry Seaward said: Adoptive Business Records Doctrine. ...and why I’m not fighting it. Not worth my tine or money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.