helpinWI

JDB Cavalry SPV, Law Firm Gustel - Not Sued Yet

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Indeed.

The earlier you start the better.

I was fortunate enough to find this forum BEFORE I defaulted on any of my debts.  By the time I finally defaulted, I knew the situation quite well.  That helped quite a bit, since I documented all the debt collectors' mistakes.

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This is the last of the "5 years ago I blew off all my debt" debts. Jerks are coming after me 1 year before SOL.

That is why I've chosen to do this. I am DONE playing with these fools.

One. More. Year. and SOL. Sigh.

Just one last storm to weather. Thankfully, I know a bit about researching law, process and am NOT intimidated by junk "attorneys" or the courts or court system.

I hope to get a simple answer and MTC put together, get it filed, hope the mag isn't too bad and gets the arb process (although I doubt they will) and this doesn't take all summer.

But totally prepared for a fight if needed!

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I hear you - we had a collections lawyer become a lobbyist and change (sorry - he would say 'clarify') our SOL from three to six, just in time to screw us. We had to do everything the old fashioned way, before realizing how effective arb is.

 

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That is unreal! It is just so scummy, I see both sides of the issue. But once the OC writes it off, why should anyone be able to buy the debt. It has created a playground for these bottom feeding JDB, I may look into how this all started, I am curious.

I can't believe he lobbied for the 6. WOW!

 

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13 minutes ago, helpinWI said:

This is the last of the "5 years ago I blew off all my debt" debts. Jerks are coming after me 1 year before SOL.

That is why I've chosen to do this. I am DONE playing with these fools.

One. More. Year. and SOL. Sigh.

Just one last storm to weather. Thankfully, I know a bit about researching law, process and am NOT intimidated by junk "attorneys" or the courts or court system.

I hope to get a simple answer and MTC put together, get it filed, hope the mag isn't too bad and gets the arb process (although I doubt they will) and this doesn't take all summer.

But totally prepared for a fight if needed!

I defaulted in the days when arbitration had just dramatically changed, collectors had no idea what to do about it, and records were often bad.  Just the threat of arbitration used to keep debt collection attorneys at bay.  

Then, right before SOL, I started hearing from lawyers about old debts.  

In one case, and I am NOT making this up, a small town law firm lost their one and only debt collection attorney, and my file sat in the bottom of a desk until a new lawyer discovered it right before SOL.  

 

There is something I did in arbitration I could not do in court.  Some of the arbitration agreements had clauses that Delaware state law be used in arbitration.  Delaware state law SOL is 3 years.  So I countered their claims by saying they couldn't collect on these debts past 3 years.  Nobody was willing to take that to the hearing.  

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It was a nightmare if you were on the edge. Our lawyer had successfully argued, for another client, that if the three year had expired, prior to it becoming six, then it stayed expired, but if debt started at three and hadn't expired when statute was changed, then you were out of luck. We had many pages of debates and research here about that circa 2013.

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Oh that is SWEET! Nice find on that agreement clause.

In a desk, just blows my mind.

Like the guy is looking through files, making two piles, ah darn, this one is too old, OH HEY THERE IS ONE THAT IS TWO MONTHS OUT FROM SOL, Bingo!

Scum. 🤣

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10 minutes ago, helpinWI said:

That is unreal! It is just so scummy, I see both sides of the issue. But once the OC writes it off, why should anyone be able to buy the debt. It has created a playground for these bottom feeding JDB, I may look into how this all started, I am curious.

I can't believe he lobbied for the 6. WOW!

 

Personally, I think it’s a good thing that JDBs can buy debts.   The reason is that the OC can sue you, or a JDB can sue you.  You have a much better chance of winning if you’re sued by a JDB.  

In addition, JDBs are bound by the FDCPA whereas OCs are not.  

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@Goody_Ouchless This whole issue really makes my eyes bug out. It just feels so gross. Like why is this legal at all?

I mean I understand the whole "you borrowed the money" thing, but like I said, written off, the large OCs probably look forward to the bad debt right off. I mean there are probably totals that they "try" to hit each year.

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There was a collections lawyer that showed up at the defunct board, before they chased him off. I messaged him and he said the best thing anyone can do is shred their credit cards.

 

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@Goody_Ouchless I hear that! I think of all the debt that people are in, like life changing numbers. Sometimes I watch Dave Ramsey ( I think that is right name) and people call in with 100,000s of dollars in debt. I'm like how in the *$#@!!! Just say no to drugs. 🤣

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Wisconsin has an interesting law.

A debt assignment is not considered valid unless the seller of the debt sends a letter to the consumer that the debt is being sold.

Darn near nobody ever does that correctly.

But then, try finding a magistrate that actually cares about that law.  

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Oh really? Well, that is an interesting tidbit. Would that be part of my answer? Or part of cause in my MTC? Or part of my JAMS filing?

Hmm, I would guess part of answer at the beginning, BUT proving that they didn't might be hard? Or would proof fall on the debt buyer, or the suing offices?

Any insight is ALWAYS appreciated! 😍

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Is this it?

422.409 Notice of assignment.
(1)The customer is authorized to pay the assignor until the customer receives notification of assignment of the rights to payment pursuant to a consumer credit transaction and that payment is to be made to the assignee. A notification which does not reasonably identify the rights assigned is ineffective. If requested by the customer, the assignee must seasonably furnish reasonable proof that the assignment has been made and unless the assignee does so the customer may pay the assignor.
(2)The notification of assignment shall be in writing and addressed to the customer at the customer's address as stated in the contract, shall be accompanied by a copy of the contract or shall identify the contract, describe the goods or services, state the names of the assignor and the customer, the name and address of the assignee, the number, amount and due dates or periods of payments scheduled to repay the indebtedness and, except in the case of a transaction secured by a first lien mortgage or equivalent security interest for the purpose of the acquisition of a dwelling, the total of payments. A provision in the assigned contract that the customer waives or will not assert claims or defenses against the assignee under s. 422.407 (2) shall not be effective unless the notification of assignment also contains a clear and conspicuous statement that the customer has 12 months within which to notify the assignee in writing of a

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12 minutes ago, helpinWI said:

Is this it?

422.409 Notice of assignment.
(1)The customer is authorized to pay the assignor until the customer receives notification of assignment of the rights to payment pursuant to a consumer credit transaction and that payment is to be made to the assignee. A notification which does not reasonably identify the rights assigned is ineffective. If requested by the customer, the assignee must seasonably furnish reasonable proof that the assignment has been made and unless the assignee does so the customer may pay the assignor.
(2)The notification of assignment shall be in writing and addressed to the customer at the customer's address as stated in the contract, shall be accompanied by a copy of the contract or shall identify the contract, describe the goods or services, state the names of the assignor and the customer, the name and address of the assignee, the number, amount and due dates or periods of payments scheduled to repay the indebtedness and, except in the case of a transaction secured by a first lien mortgage or equivalent security interest for the purpose of the acquisition of a dwelling, the total of payments. A provision in the assigned contract that the customer waives or will not assert claims or defenses against the assignee under s. 422.407 (2) shall not be effective unless the notification of assignment also contains a clear and conspicuous statement that the customer has 12 months within which to notify the assignee in writing of a

Yes, that is it.  Good find.

That is a use-it-or-lose-it provision.  It is possible a judge or magistrate will rule that if you didn't demand the information when you first heard from the JDB, you lose you rights. 

In any case, as part of your answer, you should demand the information from the JDB.  If you don't, you have certainly waived your rights.  

 

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I did send a letter to the JDB's attorney but I only asked for these items:

1.       The name, address and balance of the original creditor.

2.       **** Law Firm has the right to collect this debt.

3.       The balance claimed has been calculated within the law.

4.       I singed the original creditor’s agreement.

 

Their answer back was a short letter than included a one page copy of my final credit card statement. Synchrony bank agreement followed by a "variable terms addendum" that doesn't look legitimate (separate from the agreement, in different font, etc.) it mentions min payment calc, sum of amounts (amount due plus 1% of new lance plus late payments, interest in current billing cycle). Bill of sale from synchrony bank to Calvary (not notarized). Affidavit of Sale stating a pool of debt was sold to Calvary, it does not say mine was in the pool (notarized). Certificate of Conformity signed in Florida (not notarized). A chart called Notification Files and Purchase Date of Oct 2018, it has my name, old address, contract date, last payment date, balance and customer ID.

 

This is the first time I've seen any information of this sale. The sale happened last October. My last payment date was in 2014. Such a dirty process. This is the first time anyone has tried to collect it besides a few late payment noticed from OC years ago.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, helpinWI said:

The name, address and balance of the original creditor.

THIS is all they were required to send under the FDCPA.

15 minutes ago, helpinWI said:

**** Law Firm has the right to collect this debt.

NOTHING in the assignment clause in WI law requires they send this in response to a DV letter.  The FDCPA definitely does not require it.

20 minutes ago, helpinWI said:

The balance claimed has been calculated within the law.

This is only required IF they sue AND the Judge requires it.  The problem you have is that you only have 6 months to dispute charges that are inaccurate or fraudulent.  Once that 6 months lapses the charges are valid under the law.  All a JDB needs is the last 6 months of statements showing you used the account, were billed, and made payments.  The balance at default/charge off would be valid since charge off does not occur until 6 months after default.

22 minutes ago, helpinWI said:

I singed the original creditor’s agreement.

 

Singing the credit agreement gets you nothing.  The court knows full well there is no SIGNED card agreement.  You are mailed the terms and conditions and one of the first ones listed is by using the card and making payments you accept all the terms and conditions and are bound by them. You know full well you didn't sign the card agreement.

All that list did was tell the JDB you can cut and paste from the internet and you don't know the law or your rights.

23 minutes ago, helpinWI said:

This is the first time I've seen any information of this sale.

Ahhhh there is the problem.  The law quoted above only says they are required to SEND you notice of assignment.  NOTHING requires they prove you RECEIVED it. All they have to do in court is show a copy of the letter and under the mail box rule in law it is considered compliant with notifying you.

 

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3 hours ago, Goody_Ouchless said:

There was a collections lawyer that showed up at the defunct board, before they chased him off. I messaged him and he said the best thing anyone can do is shred their credit cards.

 

So that they can use payday loans in an emergency, right?   Instead, I would say the best thing anyone can do is READ their card agreements, KNOW how their bank operates with that card, use it sparingly and if trouble comes up ASSERT YOUR RIGHTS under the agreement and consumer laws.

 

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4 hours ago, helpinWI said:

I calculated the date from the pre-judgement rules of service. "Not less than 8 business days before the hearing date."

I understand that if there is no service, I technically don't know of it. But would they wait until the last day they can legally serve me to lessen the time I would have to prepare, hence me looking online and seeing they have sued me, and therefor, now, starting to prepare. I know the service will come today or tomorrow.

Don't get hung up on this.  The courts are not "out to get you".  If you are served only 9 or 10 days before a hearing, just show up to the hearing with at least an answer that denies everything.  Tell the judge you were just served and have not had time to look or prepare anything yet and ask for more time.  Perhaps even say you intend to file a Motion to Compel Arbitration in this case, but need 15 - 30 days to do so.  The judge will understand that having only a few days is not enough time and will set a new hearing date.

Now, in the meantime, just prepare your answer and work on your MTC.  With the help here, you can possibly have everything ready to do anyway for when you are served and it won't be a big deal anyway.

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8 hours ago, fisthardcheese said:

So that they can use payday loans in an emergency, right?   Instead, I would say the best thing anyone can do is READ their card agreements, KNOW how their bank operates with that card, use it sparingly and if trouble comes up ASSERT YOUR RIGHTS under the agreement and consumer laws.

 

Or they have funds in a savings account that they can access because they are not paying the banks outrageous amounts of money in interest.

This is the USA and you still have the right to not do business with anyone who you feel is not playing fairly and that is the way I see it. I have to conduct my affairs differently but I would rather do that than give, say Wells Fargo, another penny of my hard earned money.

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13 hours ago, fisthardcheese said:

Don't get hung up on this.  The courts are not "out to get you".  If you are served only 9 or 10 days before a hearing, just show up to the hearing with at least an answer that denies everything.  Tell the judge you were just served and have not had time to look or prepare anything yet and ask for more time.  Perhaps even say you intend to file a Motion to Compel Arbitration in this case, but need 15 - 30 days to do so.  The judge will understand that having only a few days is not enough time and will set a new hearing date.

Now, in the meantime, just prepare your answer and work on your MTC.  With the help here, you can possibly have everything ready to do anyway for when you are served and it won't be a big deal anyway.

Small claims in Wisconsin can be very different from county to county and even case to case within the county. 

In most situations, the magistrate or some other facilitator wants to get the case off the docket NOW.  They have a rather heavy load.  

Sending the case off to arbitration gets the case off their load.  I would suggest going into the hearing with a MTC in hand, and of course a copy for the opposing counsel.  If possible, file this at least a few days before the hearing, and send a copy to their attorney CMRRR, so they can't claim they didn't get it.  Trust me, if you do NOT send it Certified Mail Return Receipt Requested, many law firms will just claim they never got it, and that puts a burden on you.  

If you go into the hearing with the MTC, better yet if you have sent it in advance, then all the magistrate has to do is rule on your MTC on the spot.  If you have written out a good one, then he won't listen to their complaints.  Unless the magistrate just feels like ignoring the law.  If that happens, you can appeal to Circuit Court.  

The advice of @firsthardcheese is not bad advice.  It's just that if you have an MTC ready for action before you are even served, you can get this case over with at the initial hearing date.  

EDIT TO ADD:

That, of course, assumes you can get an MTC ready in time.  If you can't, ask the magistrate at the hearing for some time to prepare one.  

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Attempted service but I was at work. I am getting paperwork together starting today. I am sure he will be back on Saturday. My boyfriend told me service guy was cursing up a storm when bf asked him what it was about. My bf's young son was within ear shot. CLASSY GUY!

After service to me, I will file the answer and MTC with the clerk and send certified-return receipt to attorney.

One question. Do I need to send a letter requesting arb and that they (attorney) pay for it (as in my contract) along with the answer and motion?

I noticed @fisthardcheese mentioned this in her sample MTC.

Thanks all!

 

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On 4/12/2019 at 8:38 AM, BackFromTheDebt said:

Small claims in Wisconsin can be very different from county to county and even case to case within the county. 

In most situations, the magistrate or some other facilitator wants to get the case off the docket NOW.  They have a rather heavy load.  

Sending the case off to arbitration gets the case off their load.  I would suggest going into the hearing with a MTC in hand, and of course a copy for the opposing counsel.  If possible, file this at least a few days before the hearing, and send a copy to their attorney CMRRR, so they can't claim they didn't get it.  Trust me, if you do NOT send it Certified Mail Return Receipt Requested, many law firms will just claim they never got it, and that puts a burden on you.  

If you go into the hearing with the MTC, better yet if you have sent it in advance, then all the magistrate has to do is rule on your MTC on the spot.  If you have written out a good one, then he won't listen to their complaints.  Unless the magistrate just feels like ignoring the law.  If that happens, you can appeal to Circuit Court.  

The advice of @firsthardcheese is not bad advice.  It's just that if you have an MTC ready for action before you are even served, you can get this case over with at the initial hearing date.  

EDIT TO ADD:

That, of course, assumes you can get an MTC ready in time.  If you can't, ask the magistrate at the hearing for some time to prepare one.  

I will be sending certified return receipt and filing downtown at the clerk before court. I am a cover all bases type person. I am going to keep my answer short and to the point, also with MTC but cover everything I need to, focusing on arb as defense and jurisdiction as the only talking point in court. I will appeal if I have to. I've been in this court before and they move swiftly, so I am hoping by filing ahead of time, she/he already has her/his mind made up before we and attorney land their beginning of May.

I am in the city, and most of the folks that are defendants in this court are poverty stricken, very poor, and not versed in law at all. I am hoping the mag will see that I did my homework and respect that. I am sure the attorney is going to try to dig into the case when the mag is asking questions, but I will just keep my mouth zipped until asked anything.

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