AlawsoabA1221

Help ASAP! Ohio - Crown Asset Mgt Complaint - $ owed from CC

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Well, something I didnt think about, courts are closed today lol. 

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Reading up on another thread re arbitration in Ohio ūüĎá, it might be good idea to include - dismissal or in the alternative stay - in a muni¬†court instead of just asking for a stay in the MTC.¬†I have everything ready to go to file Mon morn. Trying to get opinions if should change it to include this??

I wasnt able to scan my doc's as pdf, pics of printed docs are a few posts above this. Btw...that thread is very informative & wish I wouldve came accross it before I started with my experience. Yall are so helpful!! :)

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6 minutes ago, AlawsoabA1221 said:

I wasnt able to scan my doc's as pdf, pics of printed docs are a few posts above this. Btw...that thread is very informative & wish I wouldve came accross it before I started with my experience. Yall are so helpful!! :)

Im glad to share my experience with you. I also have another thread that I won against LVNV. That was my first learning experience, and you could watch my growth lol. There are so many great people that are willing to put in their time to help you. This community is amazing, thats why I put in the work I can do and return the favor to any future pro se'ers. Just remember I am not a lawyer, I am only implementing what I learn and researched along with the direction of many community members. I wish you luck, and make sure you re-read at least 5-6 more times before you file with a fine tooth comb for errors.

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Im glad to share my experience with you. I also have another threadÔĽŅ¬†that I won against LVNV. That was my first learning experience, and you could watch my growth lol. There are so many great people that are willing to put in their time to help you. This community is amazing, thats why I put in the work I can do and return the favor to any future pro se'ers. Just remember I am not a lawyer, I am only implementing what I learn and researchedÔĽŅ¬†along with the direction of many community members. I wish you luck, and make sure you re-read at least 5-6 more times before you file with a fine tooth comb for errors.

 

I know you & the community are just giving advice. But it helps tremendously! Everyone is so patient, I mean, I've asked some dumb questions Haha.  Ive learned so much.  Now that my past stupid decisions & unfortunate circumstances I couldnt predict is catching up with me, it's nice to know, with the help of others, can try to use the law in our favor to help us as consumers to settle items for good or sometimes get lucky. 

 

I will definately review my items tons more! Good luck with your filing as well!

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18 hours ago, AlawsoabA1221 said:

Reading up on another thread re arbitration in Ohio ūüĎá, it might be good idea to include - dismissal or in the alternative stay - in a muni¬†court instead of just asking for a stay in the MTC.¬†I have everything ready to go to file Mon morn. Trying to get opinions if should change it to include thisÔĽŅ??

That's my take on Ohio arb law, but experience reported here indicates that it doesn't seem to make a difference if the defendant files a motion to dismissor in the alternative stay or a MTC.  You should always ask for a stay, however, as Ohio law mandates a stay pending arb.  And that is what ends the creditor's court case progress.

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On 4/19/2019 at 10:27 PM, AlawsoabA1221 said:

Im glad to share my experience with you. I also have another threadÔĽŅ¬†that I won against LVNV. That was my first learning experience, and you could watch my growth lol. There are so many great people that are willing to put in their time to help you. This community is amazing, thats why I put in the work I can do and return the favor to any future pro se'ers. Just remember I am not a lawyer, I am only implementing what I learn and researchedÔĽŅ¬†along with the direction of many community members. I wish you luck, and make sure you re-read at least 5-6 more times before you file with a fine tooth comb for errors.

 

I know you & the community are just giving advice. But it helps tremendously! Everyone is so patient, I mean, I've asked some dumb questions Haha.  Ive learned so much.  Now that my past stupid decisions & unfortunate circumstances I couldnt predict is catching up with me, it's nice to know, with the help of others, can try to use the law in our favor to help us as consumers to settle items for good or sometimes get lucky. 

 

I will definately review my items tons more! Good luck with your filing as well!

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Nobody is giving you advice as that is for attorneys who advise their client. People on this site give suggestions according to their experiences.

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NobodyÔĽŅ¬†is giving you advice as that is for attorneys who advise their client. People on this site give suggestions according to their experiencesÔĽŅ.

 
Yes, I get that

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I filed my MTC today. The lady had to take it in the back to ensure it could be filed because they've never had anyone file this before. She said it would be set for a hearing. Kinda confused as to why it would be since I didnt request one & the court rules state there wouldnt be for a motion, just a ruling.

I know the hearing hasnt been set yet for the complaint (docket hasn't been updated online at least).  I am thinking hearing will be set maybe because I was stupid & mailed my complaint answers via reg mail, that maybe plaintiff filed for judgment prior to me filing this motion today? (Its been about 10 days since I filed complaint answers) or because they've never received this type motion before. 

Because they're setting this hearing, should I draft the judgment (not sure what its called) to file if no plaintiff response to this motion after 14 days? (Time frame per court rules). 

I know I cant request arb until this is granted, do I draft a notice of arb w JAMS to take to this hearing? I sent my notice of arb via regular mail & didnt include either w AAA or JAMS (I know I'm stupid for reg mail. I'm well briefed now).  Anything else I need to prepare for hearing or my next steps? (I will read up on threads re arb to try to prepare as well). 

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Setting a motion hearing is not unusual.  I doubt it has anything to do with anything you have done, except filing the motion.

 But, you do need to be aware of a possible ulterior motive of the court: the hearing is an opportunity to get the parties together, so they can be urged to settle.  And sometimes this urging is not subtle.  You need to resist any pressure to settle (unless you want to settle) and insist on arb.

You should be prepared at the motion hearing to argue your motion, why you want arb and why your motion should be granted under the law.

If the plaintiff does not respond to your motion, yes, your motion should be granted by default.  But it probably won't work that way.  The court will go ahead with the hearing and will bend over backwards to accommodate the plaintiff.  That's what happened in my case.  The JDB attorney didn't respond to my arb motion, but showed up for the motion hearing.  I argued that my motion should be granted by default.  The court didn't dismiss (as I requested), but did stay the case.  (Note the court will not be as accommodating to you as they are to the plaintiff.)

It wouldn't hurt to draft up the JAMS paperwork, to show you are serious, in case that issue gets raised.

 

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Another good point brought to my attention is setting the amount when demanding for arb. As you go through the paperwork for JAMS you will come across a page asking for the claim, and the amount of the claim. This can be confusing for some (guilty here).

*This is my interpretation and I may be wrong*

So being that we are now flipping the table on the plaintiff we have to present that. For example ( Their claim against you by the Plaintiff is $2436.27, and you could set your claim amount at $2000.) A typical PDCPA Violation is $1000

In this example you could claim : Violation of state and federal credit collection laws

Now, they are wondering what violations they have committed, they can fight and pay a lot of money to find out, or they offer a dismissal from court to settle.

This essentially becomes the bargaining chip to put you in a decent position. ( keep in mind you can change your claim if you need to later so long as it is early in the game)

*Again this is only my take, and my opinion, and I may be wrong. Just wanted to lay my thinking process out for you, or any other future readers.*

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@MikeB35 Great info. Inevitably, I have a few questions about this :)

In the example you provided, Is rounding the claim down (to $2,000) what I'm supposed to do? I would submit the claim as $3000, referencing the violation, correct? 

What is the appropriate time frame and what scenario would prompt me to change the claim later? 

Is there a place in this application to request the plaintiff to pay per the agreement specifications OR do I request this separately? If sep, what method?

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"This is essentially like you are now "suing" the JDB, only in arbitration instead of court.  Think of it just like that.  You would not file a lawsuit against yourself, so do not do it in arbitration.  I would never mention THEIR claims against me, nor the debt in any way.  Instead, I only file MY claims against the JDB.  Do not worry at this stage about the details of your claims because this initial claim is allowed to be changed, added to or dropped at any time before an arbitrator is assigned to the case (and even after, you can still make changes with the arbitrator's permission).  If you have nothing very strong with proof against the JDB, I would file with something such as "violations of state and federal consumer debt collection laws"  or perhaps, "Violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act", etc.  Or even a simple "Billing dispute" will do if you have no violations of law against them. Again, it doesn't need to be more detailed then that at this stage and if your claims never pan out, you have the ability to drop them later (or you may find NEW claims to add if the JDB violates the laws during the ongoing case)."

@AlawsoabA1221  Many state consumer protection laws mirror federal laws but with much lower monetary awards. If you have (ahem) plausible violations of both, you should add in the state's penalty award, too. 

Let's ask @fisthardcheese if he could kindly explain further this quote from his epic arb thread: "(or you may find NEW claims to add if the JDB violates the laws during the ongoing case)."

 

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This makes sense. I am going to read up more on that thread too.

Currently, I dont have any proof to back up an FDCPA claim (but I can always it & remove it if need be) and/or change to the Billing Dispute, bc I never received any correspondence from this JBD until this complaint (nor from the OC. The OC never updated my new address when I requested while the account was in good standing). The plaintiff didn't have my updated address until a previous complaint was on file with this same municpal court & they did their scrub, any previous correspondence was sent to my previous address. I've never got A chance to do a debt val & received no calls to inform cease & desist in hope's of a TCPA either. 

Hopefully @fisthardcheese can add the details of any new violation in the new case :)

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5 hours ago, AlawsoabA1221 said:

I never received any correspondence from this JBD until this complaint

There is no requirement in OH law or the FDCPA that they contact you prior to suing.  Many JDBs do not contact a consumer and just sue in order to eliminate the risk of a counter claim.

5 hours ago, AlawsoabA1221 said:

I've never got A chance to do a debt val & received no calls to inform cease & desist in hope's of a TCPA either. 

They are not required to do ANY of that.  They can simply sue you which they did.  This approach is not going to work and has no basis in the law.

The days of JDBs violating the FDCPA with impunity generating counter claims are long over.  They have scrubbed their act clean to ensure when they do go to court they have a clear path to judgment. 

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2 hours ago, AlawsoabA1221 said:

I was kinda asking if I should even try that approach - then change it later - since I had no proof to back up that claim & the plaintiff would recognize that. 

This is not an approach you use if you know you do not have a claim you can back up.  That used to work 10 years ago when violations happened routinely.   JDBs would see a counter claim and simply dismiss to avoid having to deal with it assuming they probably did violate since they routinely DID.  They cleaned up their act after the CFPB got involved and now you almost never see counter claims because they stopped doing the things that led to them.

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Focus on getting the MTC granted in court before worrying about the arbitration details.  Crown is not going to arbitrate anyway, so getting the MTC granted is the biggest hurdle here.

Just work on gathering case laws from your state showing that you have an absolute right to arbitration when there is a valid contract containing an arbitration clause.  That will be the big argument at the hearing.  Your argument will be that there is a valid agreement to arbitrate (and potentially that Crown has no objected to the agreement, therefore there is no question that it is a valid agreement). Then you cite the court rulings from your state that show a valid agreement MUST be arbitrated.

Gathering this info now will also be helpful when they inevitably file an opposition to your MTC, which you can include to refute any arguments they make in that opposition.

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If you need Ohio case law, refer to my active thread, PRA vs me

as well as my past LVNV vs me

Thanks to the many members putting in their time and search efforts, they have provided me with valuable case law and would like to extend the same to you. Put in a few hours a night if you can spare to read up on rules and read case files to see how they pertain to your case. Knowledge is your best weapon, it will prepare you for the coming confrontation you will have with an experienced lawyer and or judge.

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20 hours ago, Brotherskeeper said:

Let's ask @fisthardcheese if he could kindly explain further this quote from his epic arb thread: "(or you may find NEW claims to add if the JDB violates the laws during the ongoing case)."

Fist, the reason I asked about possible JDB/attorney violations is because the other Ohio case of MikeB35 has the attorney lying in the motion response about what the contract's arb clause actually says. I seem to recall a ruling that lying to a judge isn't the same as misleading a consumer. I was wondering what kinds of attorney or JDB violations can occur during the ongoing case. 

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11 hours ago, Brotherskeeper said:

Fist, the reason I asked about possible JDB/attorney violations is because the other Ohio case of MikeB35 has the attorney lying in the motion response about what the contract's arb clause actually says. I seem to recall a ruling that lying to a judge isn't the same as misleading a consumer. I was wondering what kinds of attorney or JDB violations can occur during the ongoing case. 

I‚Äôm not sure I would say the attorney‚Äôs response is a ‚Äúlie‚ÄĚ. ¬†It could be, but it might not be. ¬†

Under certain circumstances, pleadings and responses can be subject to the FDCPA depending upon the issue and court rulings.

Misrepresenations fall under 1692e, and courts have determined that any alleged misrepresentation must be ‚Äúmaterial‚ÄĚ in nature. ¬†It must confuse or mislead the consumer. ¬†

I’m not sure that the objection to arbitration submitted by the attorney would be one that would confuse or mislead a consumer as intended by the FDCPA.   If all objections and arguments were subject to the FDCPA, collection attorneys would have a difficult time representing their clients.   Misinterpretation of an agreement is not necessarily a violation. 

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4 hours ago, BV80 said:

I‚Äôm not sure I would say the attorney‚Äôs response is a ‚Äúlie‚ÄĚ. ¬†It could be, but it might not be. ¬†

I wouldn't "say" it either. Using a block quote from the arb clause, using an ellipsis to omit important language, then misstating what the omission's terms actually are might not be a "lie." 

4 hours ago, BV80 said:

If all objections and arguments¬†were subject to the FDCPA, collection attorneys would have a difficult time representing tÔĽŅheir clients. ¬† Misinterpretation¬†of an agreement is not necessarily a violation.¬†

I agree! Poor lawyering isn't sanctionable unless it crosses over into violations of professional conduct. I'm interested to know, though, what are other examples of JDB/attorney violations during a court case? (Not trying to highjack this thread) 

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On 4/25/2019 at 8:47 AM, Brotherskeeper said:

I wouldn't "say" it either. Using a block quote from the arb clause, using an ellipsis to omit important language, then misstating what the omission's terms actually are might not be a "lie." 

I agree! Poor lawyering isn't sanctionable unless it crosses over into violations of professional conduct. I'm interested to know, though, what are other examples of JDB/attorney violations during a court case? (Not trying to highjack this thread) 

Violations would be generally something with credit reports (like changing the balance or updating to a judgement before such is actually obtained), or sending new collection letters on the account in litigation, or, as happened with me once, the attorney's office calling me to attempt to settle the case after I had retained an attorney and the attorney had filed an answer and appearance and had already reached out to the law firm.

Often, an attorney misconduct within the court room or filings is more of a matter for the state bar.  Filing a bar complaint is an option, which, especially if in arbitration, will really slow down a case since they law firm may even replace that attorney in the middle of the case. 

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5 hours ago, fisthardcheese said:

sending new collection letters on the account in litigation, or, as happened with me once, the attorney's office calling me to attempt to settle the case after I had retained an attorney...

...after attorney filed suit in federal court. Still made harrassing phone calls. NDA. xtookewlx

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7 hours ago, Brotherskeeper said:

...after attorney filed suit in federal court. Still made harrassing phone calls. NDA. xtookewlx

$$NDAs$$ are always nice. :D  

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So, of course, I received a request from the Plaintiff today for Interrogatories, Request for Production of Doc's & Request for Admissions. 

I filed my MTC April 22, the 14 days will be up 5/6. However, the court set a "hearing" for 5/7 after I filed my MTC. Per the court rules, I'm guessing this is the "initial conference?!"

Should I draft my motion for dismissal (or whatever its called) & take with me & either file the morning of take with me on the date of our hearing? 

I will have my Jams arb form filled out along with my notes to use during the hearing. 

Idk how long the answer time frame is for the interrogatories per the court rules. Is this considered a "motion"? That's prob a stupid question lol. Should I have this answer ready for the hearing as well?

What is the beat order to file all of these in or present to the court? 

 

Rules of Practice and Procedure of Municipal Court (PDF).pdf

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