robf270

Need help in Arbitration. Midland Funding paid the fees

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1 hour ago, robf270 said:

One was with the same law firm and the other one was a different law firm.

For the prior Midland case where Lloyd & McDaniel was Midland's counsel, what was the sequence of events?

Did you file a court motion and initiate arbitration?  How did the court case get dismissed?  Did you execute a release with Lloyd & McDaniel/Midland?

If Lloyd & McDaniel negotiated a release on the prior case, but paid the filing fees in the present case, they probably did the latter with intention rather than as some sort of mistake or oversight.

1 hour ago, robf270 said:

On my claims demand I put consumer debt dispute.

If you made claims, they have to pay filing fees for both your claims ($1500 minus $250) and for their counterclaims (another $1500).  So, that is $2750-$3000 just in filing fees, even before any retainer is paid.  It is unlikely that Lloyd & McDaniel would make these payments without consulting with Midland first.

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6 minutes ago, Pericles said:

If you made claims, they have to pay filing fees for both your claims ($1500 minus $250) and for their counterclaims (another $1500). 

I'm pretty sure it's not the case where they have to pay two different filing fees unless they open a separate action for their own claims. They can have their claims heard under the same action (and same fees) as the consumer's claims against them. 

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30 minutes ago, Harry Seaward said:

I'm pretty sure it's not the case where they have to pay two different filing fees unless they open a separate action for their own claims. They can have their claims heard under the same action (and same fees) as the consumer's claims against them. 

I've seen both happen;

The counterclaim filing fee charged on top of the claim filing fee.  Or it not charged.

The website states:

Quote

JAMS also charges a $1,500 filing fee for counterclaims.

Here is an example forum post where it appears that both fees were charged; Link.

Quote from the above link (note: the fee then was 1200 instead of the current 1500);

Quote

-JAMS demand filed; consumer share paid.  AMEX just paid their $2500 share (including counterclaim fee).

 

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@Pericles I had four total cases. 3 with Midland Funding and 1 with Portfolio Recovery. 2 of the Midland Funding with the law firm of Lloyd & McDaniel. The other one with the law firm of Fenton LLC. The Portfolio Recovery case was done with their own lawyers ( Beth Albright). All these cases were with Synchrony Bank. All the cases they filed for a MSJ ( motion for summary judgement). In which I did a Answer to that and got them denied. Then I filed a MTC and got three of them granted (2- Midland and 1- Portfolio). The 3rd Midland with the other law firm I got dismiss on the day of court. The law firm walk in with a mutual dismissal agreement. I guess that is what it was called. And the judge and I accepted their offer. So on the other three I filed with JAMS to start the process of Arbitration. Within three weeks of filing the forms. I got a letter from Portfolio Recovery wanting me to drop the Arbitration case for a dismissal with prejudice. So I sent them a letter back saying I would only when I received the dismissal from the court. In two weeks it was dismissed. I also got one from Lloyd & McDaniel for the same thing. But this debt was for only $500. I think this may be why they didn't follow me into Arbitration on this case. I hope this answers all of your questions.

.

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On 5/10/2019 at 1:18 PM, Goody_Ouchless said:

If everyone decided to go through the hassle of arbitration, knowing they were going to lose, for the sake of the "greater good," then maybe they'd rethink things. Unfortunately doing anything for the "greater good" is no longer in vogue, so I think it will be totally effective.

As @Harry Seaward said - OC's have been doing it. Look at @tvaughn's case and decide if you'd go through that, or just take their settlement offer, up front, and be done with it. This has been a long time coming.

 

OC Banks make billions in profit.  They have the expendable money to throw around like that.  While Midland is the largest JDB, their profit margins are much slimmer than a bank, as debt collection is their sole source of revenue.   I highly doubt Midland would or even could afford to start following a few hundred people per year into arbitration for several thousand dollar losses each just to prove a point.

I am still skeptical.  I still have yet to see a JDB go to the final award on these cases.  The only thing we have seen is a few law firms paying the initial filing fee so far.

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On 5/10/2019 at 2:19 PM, Brotherskeeper said:

I don't think so, but this is now above my pay grade and into @fisthardcheese 's realm. Please reread his pinned arbitration thread for insight and advice on drafting a formal JAMS demand. I seem to recall that you had some potential consumer violations or at least plausible ones. Exploring those would be a good place to begin. 

Op now has an arbitrator likely assigned to the case, so in order to add actual claims they will now need to first ask the arbitrator permission to amend their demand.  I would do this.  I would start doing everything I could to use up as much arbitrator time as I could get away with without being frivolous.

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On 5/12/2019 at 4:42 AM, fisthardcheese said:

I highly doubt Midland would or even could afford to start following a few hundred people per year into arbitration for several thousand dollar losses each just to prove a point.

It's not about proving a point - it's about ending this before it ends up on 60 Minutes because a Midland exec beat someone at CBS in a yacht race.Theses portfolios are so vulnerable to this strategy going viral, that they need to do some kind of risk mitigation.

 

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17 minutes ago, Goody_Ouchless said:

It's not about proving a point - it's about ending this before it ends up on 60 Minutes because a Midland exec beat someone at CBS in a yacht race.Theses portfolios are so vulnerable to this strategy going viral, that they need to do some kind of risk mitigation.

 

I just don't see it as that dire for Midland.  Even if it were to "go viral", how much would that increase the use of arbitration?  Being very liberal, let's say 50% (I don't think realistically it would be close to that), but that still leaves 50% of their cases for defaults and easy consent judgements.  If they just let go of those 50% arbitration cases and took that massive profit hit for a year or two (virility only lasts so long, after all), they still turn a profit.  But if they start going after those 50% in arbitration to stop the usage and spread of it, they are close to taking a loss for the year.  I dont think they want to go near that.

Also, I highly doubt some mainstream news  program is going to cover using arbitration against a JDB.  The first thing they are going to do is run the idea by their attorneys and those attorneys will tell them it is a horrible idea and that it won't work because arbitration is a bad thing.  These are news organizations who still talk about arbitration being terrible for consumers and saying it should be removed from all consumer contracts.

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1 hour ago, Goody_Ouchless said:

ends up on 60 Minutes because a Midland exec beat someone at CBS in a yacht race.

:roflmao:

1 hour ago, fisthardcheese said:

f they just let go of those 50% arbitration cases and took that massive profit hit for a year or two (virility only lasts so long, after all), they still turn a profit.

I took a look at Encore's SEC filings a year ago or so. Their margins aren't all that great. Some pretty big debt buyers went bust in a time when their business should have been booming. These guys still have to pay full price for the portfolio regardless of how many of the debts they can collect. Of course arbitration use will never be anywhere near 50%, but if you figure that they are already starting at only 50% collectability on a debt portfolio, 10% of a portfolio is 20% of the collectable pool. I can totally see the arbitration spike in the last couple of years getting their attention. 

We'll know either way soon enough. 

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2 hours ago, fisthardcheese said:

...that still leaves 50% of their cases for defaults and easy consent judgements.

Losing 50% of their 97% default haul would be a disaster. Consider, as well, that any viral spread of this may disproportionately affect those with the ability to pay - folks with the intelligence to understand the implications of this "get out of jail free" card. As @Harry Seaward said, we'll know soon enough, assuming everyone doesn't pull a @Busymom5 and vanish.

(The other consideration is if one of these arbitrations costs less than 5K, - rather than the six figures they used to toss around at the defunct board - then any debt over that is still a money maker. Seems like we are seeing more in-house counsel, so those are fixed costs - lawyer is getting paid whether he's handling an arbitration or making coffee.)

 

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14 minutes ago, Goody_Ouchless said:

lawyer is getting paid whether he's handling an arbitration or making coffee.

Maybe I'm punch drunk, but you're killing me today. 

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Of course this comes as I am currently tearing my hair out over drafting my MTC w/ Midland. This puts the fear of God into me. I hope this is because it is the same lawfirm handling the OP's second debt and not because this is their new strategy. I was worried about dealing with their opposing my motion, but if they actually followed me in, I would be hosed. In CA, this makes me think maybe defending would be wiser. I'm going to stay tuned here to see if they pay the second bill. I thought in JAMS the arbitrator can award the Arb and atty fees to be paid by the loser? Isn't it only AAA that their am terms say their fees can't be assigned to the loser? Oh, but remembing it was Synchrony, they pay fees even if he loses right? 

        Interestingly, I looked at the most recent synchrony agreement for a Gap Inc cc, and they have taken JAMS and AAA out of the contract. 

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2 hours ago, Banana said:

Of course this comes as I am currently tearing my hair out over drafting my MTC w/ Midland. This puts the fear of God into me. I hope this is because it is the same lawfirm handling the OP's second debt and not because this is their new strategy. I was worried about dealing with their opposing my motion, but if they actually followed me in, I would be hosed. In CA, this makes me think maybe defending would be wiser. I'm going to stay tuned here to see if they pay the second bill. I thought in JAMS the arbitrator can award the Arb and atty fees to be paid by the loser? Isn't it only AAA that their am terms say their fees can't be assigned to the loser? Oh, but remembing it was Synchrony, they pay fees even if he loses right? 

        Interestingly, I looked at the most recent synchrony agreement for a Gap Inc cc, and they have taken JAMS and AAA out of the contract. 

JAMS is not supposed to stick the consumers with the cost, but some have read their rules to be open ended on that question. But you are in California where that is barred by state law, so you have nothing to worry about.  Even if they follow you (I am 99.9% sure they won't), you just defend yourself on the alleged debt the same way you would in court.

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5 hours ago, Banana said:

Interestingly, I looked at the most recent synchrony agreement for a Gap Inc cc, and they have taken JAMS and AAA out of the contract.

Where did you find the agreement you looked at? Was arbitration removed completely from that agreement? I just checked the newest one on the CFPB website and it has both, JAMS and AAA.

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@Banana Here is the March 2019 Synchrony Bank Gap Agreement, page 4:

Gap Inc. Visa Card 3/19 Account Agreement

• How to start an arbitration, and the arbitration process

1. The party who wants to arbitrate must notify the other party in writing. This notice can be given after the beginning of a lawsuit or in papers filed in the lawsuit. Otherwise, your notice must be sent to Synchrony Bank, Legal Operation, P.O. Box 29110, Shawnee Mission, KS 66201- 5320, ATTN: ARBITRATION DEMAND. The party seeking arbitration must select an arbitration administrator, which can be either the American Arbitration Association (AAA), 120 Broadway, Floor 21, New York, NY 10271, www.adr.org, (800) 778-7879, or JAMS, 620 Eighth Avenue, 34th Floor, New York, NY 10018, www.jamsadr.com, (800) 352-5267. If neither administrator is able or willing to handle the dispute, then the court will appoint an arbitrator.

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@Brotherskeeper @Harry Seaward Weird. It is on my laptop at home. Downloaded from consumer protection bureau. I'll post it later today. It still has the Arb clause but doesn't specify aaa or jams now. I figured they are sick of losing their oppositions to mtc's and figure court appointed arb's will be cheaper. 

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Ok so I apologize, went home double checked the downloaded file. It's right there. The one I pulled was  from 9/2018. I don't know what my problem was that I didn't see it. Must have been looking at this stuff too long! (Believe it or not, I'm actually not a total idiot - I apparently just can't read what's in plain English! *Embarrassed*) Sorry!

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Don't worry.  It happens to everyone.  Let's be honest, this is a lot of information to wade through.  Of course there are going to be times you make a mistake.

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37 minutes ago, Banana said:

Ok so I apologize, went home double checked the downloaded file. It's right there. The one I pulled was  from 9/2018. I don't know what my problem was that I didn't see it. Must have been looking at this stuff too long! (Believe it or not, I'm actually not a total idiot - I apparently just can't read what's in plain English! *Embarrassed*) Sorry!

You’re not an idiot.  We all, myself included, can overlook details.   I still do it even though I’ve been on this site for years and should know better. 🙄

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10 hours ago, Banana said:

(Believe it or not, I'm actually not a total idiot - I apparently just can't read what's in plain English! *Embarrassed*) Sorry!

Been there; done that. The good news is: AAA and JAMS are still in there! 

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As the others have said, mistakes happen. I'm actually relieved it was that and not some new rules we had to try to figure out. 

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