hellodebt

AMEX Filed Motion For Summary Judgement

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16 minutes ago, Clydesmom said:

Then the clerk did not upload the entire document.  You would have to go to the clerks office and get a copy directly from them.  Sometimes the online docket limits how large of a document can be uploaded.  Were you not served a copy by mail as well?

I just looked through my personal files and cannot find the original. So yes will have to go get a copy from the clerks office. Thank you for pointing that out.

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6 minutes ago, BV80 said:

To be honest, I can see why they motioned  to strike them. The defenses regarding their ownership, right to sue, and evidence of a transfer were not proper defenses because the account was opened with AmEx.  In your 5th defense, you mentioned a FL law regarding assignees.  The plaintiff is not an assignee.

You raised TILA, but that has nothing to do with the evidentiary requirements of courts to prove a debt.   The case law cited to support that defense was an older ruling from a county court in New York.  No Florida court would be bound by that ruling,

You also raised the FDCPA.  AmEx is the OC and not bound by the FDCPA.

Thanks for pointing this out. If I could go back and start fresh, I would. Initially I just wanted to stall the suit until I was able to find proper representation... but things ended up getting worse for me (financially) and that idea went out the window. 

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I would recommend three things:

1.  Research what you need to do to protect yourself as much as possible from a judgment until such a time as you can declare BK.  

2.  Contact a mental health professional.  I am 100% serious here.  You said the stress is bad enough you have thoughts of suicide.  You need help coping with the stress.  There are options for people with no money.  

3. If you have any weapons in the house, get rid of them.  Even if they are collectors items for display.  Two guys I was close to when I was a kid are now dead because they had access to collectors item weapons when they were feeling suicidal.  Everyone I know who attempted suicide without a weapon, including my own kid a few months ago, is still alive. Although a couple of them, including my kid, came close to dying.  

Everyone I have ever met who attempted suicide and failed is glad they failed.  Why? Because things always get better eventually.  

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57 minutes ago, BackFromTheDebt said:

I would recommend three things:

1.  Research what you need to do to protect yourself as much as possible from a judgment until such a time as you can declare BK.  

2.  Contact a mental health professional.  I am 100% serious here.  You said the stress is bad enough you have thoughts of suicide.  You need help coping with the stress.  There are options for people with no money.  

3. If you have any weapons in the house, get rid of them.  Even if they are collectors items for display.  Two guys I was close to when I was a kid are now dead because they had access to collectors item weapons when they were feeling suicidal.  Everyone I know who attempted suicide without a weapon, including my own kid a few months ago, is still alive. Although a couple of them, including my kid, came close to dying.  

Everyone I have ever met who attempted suicide and failed is glad they failed.  Why? Because things always get better eventually.  

Thank you for your concern. I am no longer in that state of mind and have thankfully overcome that period of my life. I was merely stating what I had to go through in order to still be here today. But thank you for your concern and i'm sorry to hear about what happened with your kid; glad he/she is alright and also pulled through.

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@hellodebt

Here is a FL court decision based upon a defendant’s answers which were stricken.  The court noted that the defendant did not file an amended answer.

We conclude that because Kuchaes' affirmative defenses were stricken and because Kuchaes did not attempt to amend his pleadings, he waived his right to assert the affirmative defenses in response to Suncoast's motion for summary judgment and that any discovery intended to prove those defenses would have been superfluous.”

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=17567050178298648379&q=“kuchaes+v.+suncoast”&hl=en&as_sdt=6,41

I don’t mean to come across as a Negative Nellie, but you must consider the possibility of the same decision by your judge.

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11 hours ago, hellodebt said:

Chances are if they're here (in this forum), they're most likely in a shitty situation and needing a helping hand. 

I and others gave you a helping hand and you snapped at it when we didn't tell you what you wanted to hear. 

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11 hours ago, hellodebt said:

things ended up getting worse for me (financially)

Are you sure you don't qualify for Ch.7? Like you've had a BK lawyer tell you this? The bar is fairly low. You don't have to be homeless, living on the streets.  I'd take a good hard look at making this a possible option, if i were you. 

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10 hours ago, hellodebt said:

If I could go back and start fresh, I would.

There were no better options in the beginning. As has been pointed out, you were in a nightmare scenario with no defense - it's not like your incorrect defenses had better alternatives. This was always going to end up the same way - you didn't do anything to make it worse, and there's nothing better you could have done earlier.

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38 minutes ago, Goody_Ouchless said:

This was always going to end up the same way - you didn't do anything to make it worse, and there's nothing better you could have done earlier.

I agree.  I don't want to pile on OP, but just want to assure them that they didn't do anything wrong and also that no one here is holding out on helping in someway.  I can understand how it would feel like that in this situation.  This case is the toughest one you can be in. Facing an OC (and Amex at that) on a business debt.  The best outcome that you could have ever gotten in any way, no matter how you went about it was probably a 70% settlement if you were lucky.

I second Harry's suggestion that you call a bankruptcy attorney and go over the possibilities.  Bk is usually easier than most people figure and can get you out from under big debts like this and back on your feet much quicker and easier than you realize as well.

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4 hours ago, hellodebt said:

Thank you for your concern. I am no longer in that state of mind and have thankfully overcome that period of my life. I was merely stating what I had to go through in order to still be here today. But thank you for your concern and i'm sorry to hear about what happened with your kid; glad he/she is alright and also pulled through.

Thank you for your kind words.  It was horrible to have my kid attempt suicide.  We are now trying to get the right medications, so this won't happen again.  Some of the best times I have had with my kid have been between the suicide attempt and now, as in when my kid is in a stable mood, I am dealing with a wonderful and delightful person.  For example, my kid quit a sport because the HS coaches in that sport did not like my kid.  This summer my kid found a club team in that sport which was looking for a fill-in player.  We got to have some great moments going to tournaments together, seeing my kid do whatever it took to help the team out, and by the end of tournament season be one of the best players on a team that was a much higher level team than the local HS varsity team.  

School has started again, so I need to worry about how my kid will handle school, and whether the stress of school will cause a lot of problems again.  

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27 minutes ago, BackFromTheDebt said:

when my kid is in a stable mood, I am dealing with a wonderful and delightful person.

 

27 minutes ago, BackFromTheDebt said:

by the end of tournament season be one of the best players on a team that was a much higher level team than the local HS varsity team.  

@BackFromTheDebt I have no wisdom to share, only my support for you, and my gratitude for your participation in this community. 

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16 minutes ago, Brotherskeeper said:

 

@BackFromTheDebt I have no wisdom to share, only my support for you, and my gratitude for your participation in this community. 

Thanks.  My kid just got home from the first day of school.  

I don't want to hijack the thread, but it really puts things in perspective.  What we are dealing with is just money.  Money is nothing but a medium of exchange.  It isn't worth suicide over money.  Life is a sacred gift.  Money is a man-made construct.  

 

My father was always wondering something.  He knew that his maternal grandfather died when he was young, and the rest of their family acted strangely to his family after that.  I mean REALLY strangely.  He never understood why, and I remember him trying to figure out a letter from his uncle, which started out saying his uncle wasn't looking for any money.  It turns out my grandfather bailed out his father-in-law a few times after the 1929 stock market crash, but at some point the stress was too much for my great-grandfather and he killed himself.  My father never knew this.  I found out from my uncle, Dad's older brother, right after my father's funeral.  

The thing is, the money problems were temporary.  All the problems would've gone away.  But my great-grandfather killed himself over some very temporary money issues.  

I know that ALL of us have had sleepless nights, and times of great stress.  I just hope that anyone who is thinking about killing themselves over pieces of paper that have no intrinsic value will get the help he or she needs before it is too late.  

Things get better.  

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4 hours ago, BackFromTheDebt said:

Thanks.  My kid just got home from the first day of school.  

I don't want to hijack the thread, but it really puts things in perspective.  What we are dealing with is just money.  Money is nothing but a medium of exchange.  It isn't worth suicide over money.  Life is a sacred gift.  Money is a man-made construct.  

 

My father was always wondering something.  He knew that his maternal grandfather died when he was young, and the rest of their family acted strangely to his family after that.  I mean REALLY strangely.  He never understood why, and I remember him trying to figure out a letter from his uncle, which started out saying his uncle wasn't looking for any money.  It turns out my grandfather bailed out his father-in-law a few times after the 1929 stock market crash, but at some point the stress was too much for my great-grandfather and he killed himself.  My father never knew this.  I found out from my uncle, Dad's older brother, right after my father's funeral.  

The thing is, the money problems were temporary.  All the problems would've gone away.  But my great-grandfather killed himself over some very temporary money issues.  

I know that ALL of us have had sleepless nights, and times of great stress.  I just hope that anyone who is thinking about killing themselves over pieces of paper that have no intrinsic value will get the help he or she needs before it is too late.  

Things get better.  

Unfortunately, some here can be quite harsh.  Don't take it personally.  While some of your posts had a sarcastic tone, everyone (even those with 'moderator' next to their name) needs to remember they were once likely in OP's shoes.  I'm all for the 'tough love' approach, but some of you take it too far IMHO. 

That said, you really do need to either settle or pursue BK.  There's really no other alternative. If CH7 isn't an option, Amex will consider hardships.  That angle will be much more productive than continuing to try to fight their attorneys. 

Don't buy the BS of some who claim that declaring BK is essentially stealing from your creditors.  The banks make calculated risks when lending money.  The cash they rake in on interest, late fees, penalty fees, etc. more than compensates for losses due to defaults.  They certainly don't lose any sleep over it; neither should you.

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12 hours ago, pulpfiction0 said:

Unfortunately, some here can be quite harsh.  Don't take it personally.  While some of your posts had a sarcastic tone, everyone (even those with 'moderator' next to their name) needs to remember they were once likely in OP's shoes.  I'm all for the 'tough love' approach, but some of you take it too far IMHO. 

That said, you really do need to either settle or pursue BK.  There's really no other alternative. If CH7 isn't an option, Amex will consider hardships.  That angle will be much more productive than continuing to try to fight their attorneys. 

Don't buy the BS of some who claim that declaring BK is essentially stealing from your creditors.  The banks make calculated risks when lending money.  The cash they rake in on interest, late fees, penalty fees, etc. more than compensates for losses due to defaults.  They certainly don't lose any sleep over it; neither should you.

You make some good points. 

I understand the "tough love" approach is like taking a 2 x 4 to the head of a mule -- try to get people out of their frame of mind and see what is going on.

There are a couple of major drawbacks, though.  

First, people often get even more stubborn when they think they are being attacked.  So sometimes the "tough love" approach is counterproductive,

Second, often people who post here are in severe emotional distress.  We don't get the folks who just made a zillion dollars because the BitCoins they spent a few dollars on as a lark are now worth a few million now.  We get the people who, through a combination of bad luck and often bad choices, are absolutely at the end of their rope, trying to negotiate a system which is rigged against them, and without the financial resources to fight back.

 

The biggest gift I ever received from this forum, and the now-defunct Debtorboards, was the gift of a good night's sleep.  When things were absolutely going crazy against me, when I had debts well into 6 figures with no way out, I got some pointers on how to proceed.  Getting out of the mess is more difficult these days, but sometimes we can help point the best, or the least bad, way through.

For the OP, I don't know why he says BK is not an option.  I do know that if one declares BK, there are a number of years before one can BK again.  During that time, lenders will throw everything at the recovering BK debtor, knowing that the debtor cannot BK his way out for a few more years.  If that is the case with the OP, then the first thing is to contact Amex and see what hardship provisions they can provide.  If that doesn't work, try to be as judgment proof as possible until BK is an option again.  The OP will take a hit, but not as big a hit.  

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18 hours ago, pulpfiction0 said:

While some of your posts had a sarcastic tone, everyone (even those with 'moderator' next to their name) needs to remember they were once likely in OP's shoes.  I'm all for the 'tough love' approach, but some of

Point taken. I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to @hellodebt if i misjudged you. 

In my defense, we've seen a hundred professional 'deadbeats' come here looking for ways to skip out on 100% legitimate debts for no reason other than they just don't want to have their comfy lifestyle disrupted. My spidey sense tingled on OP's first couple of posts as resembling what we typically see with the "pros". So again, if i misjudged, please accept my sincerest apology. 

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7 minutes ago, Harry Seaward said:

Point taken. I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to @hellodebt if i misjudged you. 

In my defense, we've seen a hundred professional 'deadbeats' come here looking for ways to skip out on 100% legitimate debts for no reason other than they just don't want to have their comfy lifestyle disrupted. My spidey sense tingled on OP's first couple of posts as resembling what we typically see with the "pros". So again, if i misjudged, please accept my sincerest apology. 

Yes, some of those are more blatant that others.  

I do recall a few people coming in and saying they could pay off the debts if they wanted to, but they just didn't feel like it.  

But there are so many ways to get into debt. In my case it was a few bad decisions and a lot of bad luck, which led to the infamous debt spiral.  I got past the emergency stage long ago.  But, we got our house in 2002, and it wasn't until a few months ago that we finally owed less on our house than we did on closing day in 2002.  Of course our current payments are more than they were in 2002.  We are still in worse shape financially than we were on closing day in 2002.  I hope we get to a better spot within the next few years.

What people need to see is that getting through a crisis is may be a one-time thing, but getting back on track financially after a disaster can take a lifetime.  

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38 minutes ago, BackFromTheDebt said:

Yes, some of those are more blatant that others. 

When someone comes and says that they've talked to several lawyers and don't like the answer the keep getting, it reminds of something a therapist once told me. She said "if someone get's in a car accident or two, it could be the other person's fault. When it gets to three and above, in a short span of time, perhaps a look in the mirror is over due."

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Don't forget the handful that come blatantly seeking help on how to commit outright fraud. We have had those that can jade perspective over time.

The poster who kept almost $150,000 in payments from BCBS and wanted to stiff the hospitals and keep the money springs to mind.

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4 hours ago, BackFromTheDebt said:

But there are so many ways to get into debt. 

I'd like to reiterate that i don't pass judgment on people that get into debt. I wouldn't even hassle anyone that had the stones to straight away admit they owe the debt and just don't want to repay it. I just have no tolerance for intellectual dishonesty, and the start of this thread triggered a lot of red flags for me.

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I'm trying to keep an open mind, but my spidey sense is tingling again because the story is changing. I'd love to explore it and give you an opportunity to explain, but i have to be honest - it's going to be a very unsatisfying experience for me if the answer to all of the tough questions is going to be "it's complicated".

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1 minute ago, Harry Seaward said:

I'm trying to keep an open mind, but my spidey sense is tingling again because the story is changing. I'd love to explore it and give you an opportunity to explain, but i have to be honest - it's going to be a very unsatisfying experience for me if the answer to all of the tough questions is going to be "it's complicated".

I give up trying to force an outcome here. Thanks again for all your help. I'm deleting my account and leaving this message board. 

 

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That strikes me as an odd reaction. I was really hoping you would have had some explanation that made all of the out of place pieces fit into the puzzle you created. 

I wish you the best of luck, although, unfortunately, I'm fairly certain things won't work out in your favor unless you stumble into a miracle. 

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@hellodebt

I don’t understand what you mean by “force an outcome”.  

You came to this site more than a year after learning of the lawsuit against you for a rather large business debt.  

While you did consult with some attorneys, your affirmative defenses were clearly aimed at a debt buyer plaintiff instead of a plaintiff that is an original creditor.  

https://www.creditinfocenter.com/community/topic/331418-amex-filed-motion-for-summary-judgement/?do=findComment&comment=1383240

I seriously doubt that the attorneys with whom you consulted told you that you were being sued by a debt buyer and advised you to file defenses that did not apply to an original creditor.   In fact, the AmEx affidavit which you originally posted, but is now deleted, contained statements that the debt was owed to AmEx (no other business entity) and that the account had not been sold.   

My point is that you did not do your due diligence.   Even though you consulted with attorneys, it seems that you did very little, if any, research into your court rules, possible defenses, and rulings by your courts.

When we did not offer defenses, you were clearly perturbed.  We explained that the majority of us are not attorneys, most posters come here for help with consumer debt, and that we routinely explain that defending an original creditor lawsuit is much more difficult than defending a debt buyer lawsuit.

The very first time I was sued by a debt buyer for a consumer credit card, the first thing   I did was to consult an attorney.   I had never even heard of “debt buyers”.   He informed me of the difference between original creditors and debt buyers.  That was 12 years ago and when my research began.  

If I or any other member on this site had any inkling of a possible defense for you, we would have offered it.  If you had come here much sooner, we might have had other suggestions.  

However, considering the facts you presented to us, your heart was not in your defense.   You are not the first person who has come here at the last minute after months of apparently doing very little to defend himself.  I am not implying that if you had done more and come here earlier, you could have defeated the lawsuit.   But if your heart was in it and you had been much more proactive, you would at least have the satisfaction of knowing you did everything you could possibly do.   

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