Indy17

Chase Bank Lying about settlement - falsifying bank records

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2 minutes ago, BV80 said:

No, I  I have no problem understanding. You see, you don’t get to define a bank record which in court would be called a “business record”.  The Indiana rules of evidence and the courts make that determination. 

 The following is from the Indiana Court of Appeals quoting the Indiana Supreme Court. 

The "regular course" of business "must find its meaning in the inherent nature of the business in question and in the methods systematically employed for the conduct of the business as a business." Thus where a company does not rely upon certain records for the performance of its functions those records are not business records within the meaning of the exception to the hearsay rule. Speybroeck v. State,875 N.E.2d 813, 819 (Ind. Ct. App. 2007)(quoting In re Termination of Parent-Child Relationship of E.T.,808 N.E.2d 639, 642-43 (Ind.2004)).

To qualify as a business record, the bank must rely on the record in order to conduct business. 

Ok, yes. I got your point about "bank records". the "misunderstanding" part is in regards to 

Quote

If you did not accept their discounted offers within the terms on which they were offered, there was no agreement between you and the bank.  

Which, is the entire point. Some slimy weasel over at Chase tried to pull a fast one on me, and Chase decided to back them up. You can all choose to not believe me if you want. 

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13 minutes ago, Indy17 said:

You can all choose to not believe me if you want. 

I believe you, because i would have done the same thing if i was them. The point you keep ignoring is that doesn't matter that they did this. There is no legal basis for a lawsuit over this kind of thing. That was your question, wasn't it? 

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30 minutes ago, Indy17 said:

I am not trying to play the "victim card". Your advice is not very good either. It goes against my personal experience, and my attorneys advice. 

Your personal experience?  It sounds like Chase isn't the only creditor you've defaulted on.

 

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21 minutes ago, Indy17 said:

Some slimy weasel over at Chase tried to pull a fast one on me, and Chase decided to back them up.

In your opinion.  You have absolutely nothing from a legal perspective to back up this belief.  The reality is more likely a lot less nefarious.  The odds are high the person on the phone had ZERO authority to extend the time frame on the settlement offer.  Chances are really good that when the phone rep passed the paperwork from the conversation on to the next level it was vetoed for being expired.  At that point if you were as charming and engaging as you have been here it is no wonder they became stubborn and refused to extend the offer.  CHASE can withdraw a settlement offer at any time without legal consequences.  They have no legal obligation to even offer you a settlement.

You can sit there and be butt hurt that you didn't get your way or you can settle it for pennies on the dollar and forget about it.  The choice is entirely yours.  Either way CHASE is not the least bit concerned that you have a negative opinion of them.  They are one of the top 5 creditors that black list consumers who default or file BK on them so they have no plans to do business with you ever again.  They could care less if you think they are slimy, deceptive, or anything else.

 

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12 minutes ago, Harry Seaward said:

I believe you, because i would have done the same thing if i was them. The point you keep ignoring is that doesn't matter that they did this. There is no legal basis for a lawsuit over this kind of thing. That was your question, wasn't it? 

Yes. Now was that so hard? I am not ignoring any point regarding legality. Another assumption gramps. 

Just now, LaneBlane said:

Your personal experience?  It sounds like Chase isn't the only creditor you've defaulted on.

 

unfortunately, it is not. I over extended on a business deal that went south in 2016. That put me into a default situation on a lot of debt. The past two years I have settled close to 20,000 in debt. Been served 2 complaints. Settled out of court on 2 cases. Sued and won two cases. One closed out nearly 5k in debt. The other one got me $1,000. I am nearly out of the woods on credit debt. I have one big one left with portfolio recovery. They are some real bastards. 

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9 minutes ago, Clydesmom said:

In your opinion.  You have absolutely nothing from a legal perspective to back up this belief.  The reality is more likely a lot less nefarious.  The odds are high the person on the phone had ZERO authority to extend the time frame on the settlement offer.  Chances are really good that when the phone rep passed the paperwork from the conversation on to the next level it was vetoed for being expired.  At that point if you were as charming and engaging as you have been here it is no wonder they became stubborn and refused to extend the offer.  CHASE can withdraw a settlement offer at any time without legal consequences.  They have no legal obligation to even offer you a settlement.

You can sit there and be butt hurt that you didn't get your way or you can settle it for pennies on the dollar and forget about it.  The choice is entirely yours.  Either way CHASE is not the least bit concerned that you have a negative opinion of them.  They are one of the top 5 creditors that black list consumers who default or file BK on them so they have no plans to do business with you ever again.  They could care less if you think they are slimy, deceptive, or anything else.

 

Thanks for the impassioned diatribe. 

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25 minutes ago, Indy17 said:

unfortunately, it is not. I over extended on a business deal that went south in 2016. That put me into a default situation on a lot of debt. The past two years I have settled close to 20,000 in debt. Been served 2 complaints. Settled out of court on 2 cases. Sued and won two cases. One closed out nearly 5k in debt. The other one got me $1,000. I am nearly out of the woods on credit debt. I have one big one left with portfolio recovery. They are some real bastards. 

If the Chase account is something you can put to rest for $310, why wouldn't you do it?  You can cross it off your list, putting you a little closer to being out of the woods.

I don't know if Chase is going to come after you for a debt that's less than $700.  If you want to take that chance, and if you don't mind having this loom over your head until the SOL expires, go ahead and see what happens.

You have no cause of action against Chase for not honoring the 30% settlement previously offered.

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9 minutes ago, LaneBlane said:

If the Chase account is something you can put to rest for $310, why wouldn't you do it?  You can cross it off your list, putting you a little closer to being out of the woods.

I don't know if Chase is going to come after you for a debt that's less than $700.  If you want to take that chance, and if you don't mind having this loom over your head until the SOL expires, go ahead and see what happens.

You have no cause of action against Chase for not honoring the 30% settlement previously offered.

I am considering it. I was pretty pissed off at them, and I don't want to reward them for the BS. These Debts are 3 years old. I am considering moving to a state that would put them outside SOL. Being sued for $668 seems unlikely IMO. The chase thing is really at the bottom of the priority list for settlements. 

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7 minutes ago, Indy17 said:

I am considering it. I was pretty pissed off at them, and I don't want to reward them for the BS. These Debts are 3 years old. I am considering moving to a state that would put them outside SOL. Being sued for $668 seems unlikely IMO. The chase thing is really at the bottom of the priority list for settlements. 

Moving to another state will not change your SOL.

If the Chase account isn't a priority, and you don't think they'll come after you, go ahead and put this on the back burner.  Hopefully the SOL will run out.

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5 minutes ago, LaneBlane said:

Moving to another state will not change your SOL.

If the Chase account isn't a priority, and you don't think they'll come after you, go ahead and put this on the back burner.  Hopefully the SOL will run out.

Why do you not think it will change SOL? State laws apply to residents of the state. There are several states with 3 year SOL. 

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8 minutes ago, Indy17 said:

Why do you not think it will change SOL? State laws apply to residents of the state. There are several states with 3 year SOL. 

I'm not familiar with Chase's cardholder agreement.  These agreements typically state the laws of a particular state apply.

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23 minutes ago, Indy17 said:

I am considering it. I was pretty pissed off at them, and I don't want to reward them for the BS. These Debts are 3 years old. I am considering moving to a state that would put them outside SOL. Being sued for $668 seems unlikely IMO. The chase thing is really at the bottom of the priority list for settlements. 

Moving to another state might actually restart the SOL. Also, they could argue that the default occurred in state A and thus, state A's laws apply.

If your attorney told you to wait until you are sued at this point, then it is pretty much said and done. Follow your attorney's advice and move on.

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1 hour ago, Indy17 said:

Yes. Now was that so hard?

I said you had no leg to stand on in my very first post. 

I am not ignoring any point regarding legality.

You are by insisting they have wronged you in some way. It's just business. They want to get as much of the debt you stiffed them over as they can. How can you possibly blame them? Your attitude over this point is pathetic.  Run your own business for a while, and see how many of your customers you feel like giving a 70% discount to. 

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28 minutes ago, WhoCares1000 said:

Moving to another state might actually restart the SOL. Also, they could argue that the default occurred in state A and thus, state A's laws apply.

If your attorney told you to wait until you are sued at this point, then it is pretty much said and done. Follow your attorney's advice and move on.

Agree with @WhoCares1000; none of us are attorneys - if you have legal guidance from one, follow that.

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I have one quick question:

Will you be in a situation in the next few years where a bad debt on your credit report will hurt you?  Such as buying or refinancing a home?

 

If so, swallow your anger and pay the 40%.  It is worth it not to have the ding on your credit report. 

If not, well, you have a gamble.  Chase usually doesn’t sue.  You are risking a sure payment of 40% against a possible payment of 100% plus court costs.  You can probably settle after getting sued, but probably not as good a settlement.  

Or, maybe in a few months or years Chase will make a better offer   

It is up to you as to how much risk you are comfortable with.  

Trust me, I understand your anger.   At this point you have to put it aside and do what is in your best interest.  If you can afford the risk of paying 100% plus court costs for an unlikely suit you might be able to settle anyway, wait it out.  If not, pay the 40%. 

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3 hours ago, Indy17 said:

unfortunately, it is not. I over extended on a business deal that went south in 2016. That put me into a default situation on a lot of debt. The past two years I have settled close to 20,000 in debt. Been served 2 complaints. Settled out of court on 2 cases. Sued and won two cases. One closed out nearly 5k in debt. The other one got me $1,000. I am nearly out of the woods on credit debt. I have one big one left with portfolio recovery. They are some real bastards. 

You don’t think the rest of us have been though the credit wringer?   How do you think we ended up here?

If you determine this to be a diatribe, so be it.

Those who have responded to you have fought collection agencies and debt buyers.  We have dealt with the endless letters that never resulted in  lawsuits but 8ended up at this site is because we were sued for credit card debt.  Some of us have fought against both original creditors and debt buyers.

I’ve been through both Original Creditor (OCs) lawsuits and debt buyer lawsuits.   I settled with OCs because I did my research and because I owed the debts   The JDB lawsuits ended in dismissals in my favor.  

You stated “My attorneys advice has been pretty consistent: to wait until being served a complaint to settle.“   

That’s not the best advice when a debt still owned by an OC.  The reason is because, in the majority of debt collection cases, an OC can provide sufficient evidence to support its claims.  Once it has begun litigation, depending upon state laws, an OC has little incentive to settle at lower percentage that it might have offered prior to filing a lawsuit.    

Depending upon the information, the consumer should determine whether or not if he should settle the debt before the possibility of a lawsuit.  There’s no way to determine if an OC or debt buyer will sue.   But depending upon state laws (garnishment, renewal of judgments), rules of evidence, and court rulings, “wait until being served a complaint to settle” is not always the best solution.  

2 hours ago, Indy17 said:

I am considering it. I was pretty pissed off at them, and I don't want to reward them for the BS. These Debts are 3 years old. I am considering moving to a state that would put them outside SOL. Being sued for $668 seems unlikely IMO. The chase thing is really at the bottom of the priority list for settlements. 

It’s not always that easy.   Some states have laws tolling the SOL when you leave the state.  Read  Unifund CCR Partners v. Sunde (Washington Court of Appeals).  

Before you’d consider a relocation to be a solution, you should consult with more than one consumer attorney versed in both the laws of Indiana and your new state of residence,  

 

 

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5 hours ago, Indy17 said:

You sound really naive to assume collectors don't "mess with people" read any book. Or hell even read this forum. That is why it is recommended to only speak to these people in written form, record calls, and never accept an offer unless it is in writing. 

Please, I'd love a list of these "books." Now it's starting to make sense...

 

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I have very little reasons to doubt what you are saying. But this is like that douchebag that tries to cut you off. Is it worth it not letting him and getting into an accident over the 3 seconds it takes to let go off the gas and slow down enough so that he gets in?

 

This 10% represents what, $30 or $40? You owe 100% of this debt. Just pay the additional $30 and move on. 

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On 9/27/2019 at 4:27 PM, Indy17 said:

I am considering moving to a state that would put them outside SOL.

Moving to another state costs more than $310.  More than $668 even. But I'm sure that will really show Chase! :D

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@BV80

Thanks for the advice. I would agree that OC debt is a little different. However, I am pretty upset at Chase. I honestly might pay more just to punish them through abirtration Maybe cooler heads will prevail though. 

 

@BackFromTheDebt

Thanks for the thoughtful advice. I am trying to buy a home. I am in a unfortunate situation where I have the money, but still have bad debts and not the best credit score. I am going to do another cleanup campaign on the credit reports. Then take it from there. I still have a major debt with portfolio recovery that I am really worried about. 

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34 minutes ago, Indy17 said:

@BV80

Thanks for the advice. I would agree that OC debt is a little different. However, I am pretty upset at Chase. I honestly might pay more just to punish them through abirtration Maybe cooler heads will prevail though. 

 

@BackFromTheDebt

Thanks for the thoughtful advice. I am trying to buy a home. I am in a unfortunate situation where I have the money, but still have bad debts and not the best credit score. I am going to do another cleanup campaign on the credit reports. Then take it from there. I still have a major debt with portfolio recovery that I am really worried about. 

Is the principal that important to you?

If you're trying to buy a home, the lender will insist that all collection accounts be paid off...  all the more reason for you to pay the $310 and cross Chase off your list.  This will allow you to move on the next account that needs your attention.  The sooner you take care of this, the sooner your credit score will start showing improvement.

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45 minutes ago, Indy17 said:

I honestly might pay more just to punish them through abirtration

I hope you don't drive with a weapon on you - sounds like you are the wrong person to accidentally cut off on the freeway...

 

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6 hours ago, Indy17 said:

I honestly might pay more just to punish them through abirtration

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:  That you believe you can punish them through arbitration.   CHASE has brought back FORCED arbitration as a clause in its agreements in order to prevent any customer from suing.  They know exactly how to run up YOUR costs and drag it out.  Go for it.  You deserve it.

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I just watched a video of people who did extensive damage to their vehicles just to avoid their vehicles being repo'd or towed. That is what this thread is sounding like.

1) The difference between 30% and 40% is less than $70. Are you really willing to start a huge battle over $70. Even if you think that you are right, is it worth it.

2) Chase can and will keep the tradeline on your credit report to the very end of reporting SOL if you do not pay and there is nothing you can do about it. They are reporting accurately.

3) If Chase sues you and there is an arbitration clause, you can bet that Chase will use the same tactic in your playbook and follow you into arbitration and spend the $1000s needed, just to show you and everyone else that arbitration does not work with original creditors. That is the same thing that Discover and AMEX does.

Seriously, accept the offer, pay the $300, and move on.

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