catlady22

Colorado - being sued by Portfolio Recovery

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1 minute ago, catlady22 said:

That was the last payment date.

I understand it was the last payment you made. When was it due? Were you delinquent when you made that payment? 

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1 hour ago, Harry Seaward said:
 
 

I understand it was the last payment you made. When was it due? Were you delinquent when you made that payment? 

Oh okay I see your point. I don't know without the statements - I don't have them - but you might be right. From a bank account I have access to the payment before 7/2 was 3/3

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Ok, so if we assume you were current with your March payment, you went into default in April. Some time in September is when you became 180 days in default. 

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16 hours ago, catlady22 said:

Oh okay I see your point. I don't know without the statements - I don't have them - but you might be right. From a bank account I have access to the payment before 7/2 was 3/3

Contact your bank to see if it will provide copies of your bank statements for the months in question.

Just an FYI:  I believe the law is that accounts must be charged off  no later than 6 months of default if an account has not been brought back to a current status.  In other words, accounts can be charged off before 6 months have passed.  

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So is it safe to assume PRA actually DID pay everything owed to AAA to send that brief? It came directly from the lawyer to me and the Pro Se Admin.

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On 2/19/2020 at 4:37 AM, fisthardcheese said:

Let me amend my response above.  Don't completely ignore their reply to AAA.  Hit Reply All to that email and send an objection to AAA.  Tell AAA that you object to the Respondent's request that the Consumer pay the full arbitration amount as it runs counter to the Consumer Supplement Rules of AAA.  I would send this email FIRST.  And then, I would send a second email to the attorney ONLY with my settlement offer.


Do you have a link to where it says that rule? I can't seem to find it. Also objections cost PRA more, right? Should I wait until the arbitrator is assigned to object?

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On 2/21/2020 at 2:38 PM, catlady22 said:


Do you have a link to where it says that rule? I can't seem to find it. Also objections cost PRA more, right? Should I wait until the arbitrator is assigned to object?

It's in the consumer rules at the bottom.  Objecting doesn't cost them more, however not objecting immediately will be deemed as a waiver on YOUR part.  I would make dang sure that AAA knows without a doubt that I DO NOT WAIVE any part of the consumer rules and that I object to their assertion that costs may be awarded.  Cost shifting is barred by the consumer rules.

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On 2/24/2020 at 9:44 AM, fisthardcheese said:

It's in the consumer rules at the bottom.  Objecting doesn't cost them more, however not objecting immediately will be deemed as a waiver on YOUR part.  I would make dang sure that AAA knows without a doubt that I DO NOT WAIVE any part of the consumer rules and that I object to their assertion that costs may be awarded.  Cost shifting is barred by the consumer rules.


crap I never saw this post until right now!! Here's an update - yesterday I got an email that PRA still owes 1400. Today I got an email that an arb is assigned. 😬 

I suppose I'll send that objection right away. Does it need to be a document or just in an email body? I see in the AAA portal PRAs demand for the cost of arb is in a Arb Brief, so I'm not sure how to respond properly - just replying to all is okay, or do I upload something in the portal to the arbitrator?  Thank you!

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On 2/24/2020 at 9:44 AM, fisthardcheese said:

It's in the consumer rules at the bottom.  Objecting doesn't cost them more, however not objecting immediately will be deemed as a waiver on YOUR part.  I would make dang sure that AAA knows without a doubt that I DO NOT WAIVE any part of the consumer rules and that I object to their assertion that costs may be awarded.  Cost shifting is barred by the consumer rules.

Wait - am I misreading this then? "For the costs you do pay, you can request that the arbitrator award you those costs as part of his or her Final Award. This means that you are requesting the arbitrator to direct the other party to pay you back for those costs. In general, the arbitrator will consider the case, his or her authority to award costs under the parties’ contract, and the applicable law to decide whether he or she should require the other party to reimburse you.:" Last page: https://www.adr.org/sites/default/files/document_repository/AAA228_Costs_of_Arbitration.pdf

 

@fisthardcheese@Harry Seaward ? Thank you!

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From the AAA Consumer Arbitration Rules: 

"Arbitrator compensation, expenses as defined in sections (v) and (vii) below, and administrative fees (which include Filing and Hearing Fees) are not subject to reallocation by the arbitrator(s) except as may be required by applicable law or upon the arbitrator’s determination that a claim or counterclaim was filed for 
purposes of harassment or is patently frivolous."

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1 hour ago, Harry Seaward said:

From the AAA Consumer Arbitration Rules: 

"Arbitrator compensation, expenses as defined in sections (v) and (vii) below, and administrative fees (which include Filing and Hearing Fees) are not subject to reallocation by the arbitrator(s) except as may be required by applicable law or upon the arbitrator’s determination that a claim or counterclaim was filed for 
purposes of harassment or is patently frivolous."

Thank you! Can I just send this objection in response to the email where PRA sent their brief requesting I pay their fees?

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You can send it in the body of an email. Include everyone including the now appointed arbitrator.

This is also a good time, since they got a new bill again, to re-send a mutual dismissal settlement offer and make the expiration of your offer the same date AAA says their $1400 is due.  The settlement offer goes to the attorney only.

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8 hours ago, fisthardcheese said:

You can send it in the body of an email. Include everyone including the now appointed arbitrator.

This is also a good time, since they got a new bill again, to re-send a mutual dismissal settlement offer and make the expiration of your offer the same date AAA says their $1400 is due.  The settlement offer goes to the attorney only.

Thank you!

Does it seem really unusual that PRA has taken it this far? I mean, I have no assets or anything to give them, especially now with the shut down...like am I pretty much in a losing position if they don't accept the dismissal?

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6 hours ago, catlady22 said:

Thank you!

Does it seem really unusual that PRA has taken it this far? I mean, I have no assets or anything to give them, especially now with the shut down...like am I pretty much in a losing position if they don't accept the dismissal?

The only thing that has happened so far is that they paid the initial filing fee, correct?  Have you even had an initial phone conference scheduled with the arbitrator yet?  You are VERY early in a months long process (and that was before the entire world slowed to a crawl recently).  There is nothing to worry about yet.  This is the time to prepare claims and responses to their claims.  This is the time to just wait and watch.  Object to anything they do that runs counter to the AAA rules and enforce all of your consumer rights per the AAA rules.  The more you have to file and email, the more bills they will be sent in the future.  The more bills they get, the more chances you have to settle in your favor.

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On 4/17/2020 at 5:13 AM, fisthardcheese said:

The only thing that has happened so far is that they paid the initial filing fee, correct?  Have you even had an initial phone conference scheduled with the arbitrator yet?  You are VERY early in a months long process (and that was before the entire world slowed to a crawl recently).  There is nothing to worry about yet.  This is the time to prepare claims and responses to their claims.  This is the time to just wait and watch.  Object to anything they do that runs counter to the AAA rules and enforce all of your consumer rights per the AAA rules.  The more you have to file and email, the more bills they will be sent in the future.  The more bills they get, the more chances you have to settle in your favor.

Thank you! I'm not sure what they've paid, it seems like the next due is the Case Management fee by the 27th.

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@fisthardcheese This has no bearing on the email settlement I sent to the attorney, right? Since small claims already said it's a matter for arb but the case is open in case issues arrive (and I found out the judge retired...ack.) 

From the AAA letter: "As a final point, we remind you of Consumer Rule R-9. This rule states 􏰁after the arbitrator is appointed, if a party wants to take the case to small claims court and notifies the opposing party and the AAA, it is up to the arbitrator to determine if the case should be decided in arbitration or if the arbitration case should be closed and the dispute decided in small claims court.􏰂
Sincerely,
/s/
Pro Se Administrator 3"

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I have a case pending with AAA, too.  It sounds like you may be a month or two ahead of me on AAA's schedule.  The letter from my Pro Se Administrator is dated March 26.  What about yours?

The respondent in my case just paid another $300 and won't be assessed the $1,400 case management fee until an arbitrator is selected or 60-days have passed, whichever comes first. Once they pay the $1,400, their grand total so far will be $4,500.

Have you registered for an account on AAA's website yet?  This will give you access to all the documents filed in your case, as well as tasks that are due.  Just visit adr.org and click "My Account" at the top of the page.  You may need to call customer service to have them link the account with your case.

5 hours ago, catlady22 said:

From the AAA letter: "As a final point, we remind you of Consumer Rule R-9. This rule states 􏰁after the arbitrator is appointed, if a party wants to take the case to small claims court and notifies the opposing party and the AAA, it is up to the arbitrator to determine if the case should be decided in arbitration or if the arbitration case should be closed and the dispute decided in small claims court."

Here's the complete paragraph from my letter:

"We draw your attention to R-9 of the Consumer Arbitration Rules. If a party’s claim is within the jurisdiction of a small claims court, either party may choose to exercise the small claims option. If either party would like this matter decided by a small claims court, please send your written request to the case administrator and copy all other parties. If the parties disagree over whether the claim is within the jurisdiction of a small claims court, the case will proceed in arbitration and the arbitrator may make a final determination on whether the claim may proceed to small claims court."

Here's R-9 in its entirety:

R-9 . Small Claims Option for the Parties

If a party’s claim is within the jurisdiction of a small claims court, either party may choose to take the claim to that court instead of arbitration as follows:

(a) The parties may take their claims to small claims court without first filing with the AAA.

(b) After a case is filed with the AAA, but before the arbitrator is formally appointed to the case by the AAA, a party can send a written notice to the opposing party and the AAA that it wants the case decided by a small claims court . After receiving this notice, the AAA will administratively close the case.

(c) After the arbitrator is appointed, if a party wants to take the case to small claims court and notifies the opposing party and the AAA, it is up to the arbitrator to determine if the case should be decided in arbitration or if the arbitration case should be closed and the dispute decided in small claims court .

 

Some arbitration agreements only give the consumer the option to file in small claims court.  If this is how your arbitration agreement reads, I'm not sure if the terms of the agreement will override rule R-9 which says either party may choose small claims.  Perhaps someone else can answer this.

 

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42 minutes ago, LaneBlane said:

I have a case pending with AAA, too.  It sounds like you may be a month or two ahead of me on AAA's schedule.  The letter from my Pro Se Administrator is dated March 26.  What about yours?

The respondent in my case just paid another $300 and won't be assessed the $1,400 case management fee until an arbitrator is selected or 60-days have passed, whichever comes first. Once they pay the $1,400, their grand total so far will be $4,500.

Have you registered for an account on AAA's website yet?  This will give you access to all the documents filed in your case, as well as tasks that are due.  Just visit adr.org and click "My Account" at the top of the page.  You may need to call customer service to have them link the account with your case.

Here's the complete paragraph from my letter:

"We draw your attention to R-9 of the Consumer Arbitration Rules. If a party’s claim is within the jurisdiction of a small claims court, either party may choose to exercise the small claims option. If either party would like this matter decided by a small claims court, please send your written request to the case administrator and copy all other parties. If the parties disagree over whether the claim is within the jurisdiction of a small claims court, the case will proceed in arbitration and the arbitrator may make a final determination on whether the claim may proceed to small claims court."

Here's R-9 in its entirety:

R-9 . Small Claims Option for the Parties

If a party’s claim is within the jurisdiction of a small claims court, either party may choose to take the claim to that court instead of arbitration as follows:

(a) The parties may take their claims to small claims court without first filing with the AAA.

(b) After a case is filed with the AAA, but before the arbitrator is formally appointed to the case by the AAA, a party can send a written notice to the opposing party and the AAA that it wants the case decided by a small claims court . After receiving this notice, the AAA will administratively close the case.

(c) After the arbitrator is appointed, if a party wants to take the case to small claims court and notifies the opposing party and the AAA, it is up to the arbitrator to determine if the case should be decided in arbitration or if the arbitration case should be closed and the dispute decided in small claims court .

 

Some arbitration agreements only give the consumer the option to file in small claims court.  If this is how your arbitration agreement reads, I'm not sure if the terms of the agreement will override rule R-9 which says either party may choose small claims.  Perhaps someone else can answer this.

 


Hey! Yeah I do have an account online, it's not entirely helpful in terms of finding it what exactly they've paid. My first letter was from 2/4. I doubt they'd try and take it back to small claims because my entire argument in granting the MTC was that small claims has no jurisdiction, but I have no idea about any of this. I'm so thankful for the people on this board!!

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7 hours ago, catlady22 said:


Hey! Yeah I do have an account online, it's not entirely helpful in terms of finding it what exactly they've paid. My first letter was from 2/4. I doubt they'd try and take it back to small claims because my entire argument in granting the MTC was that small claims has no jurisdiction, but I have no idea about any of this. I'm so thankful for the people on this board!!

You're roughly 1.5 months ahead of me in the process.  My case is at the stage where an arbitrator is selected.  I'm not sure if this will be delayed as a result of the COVID-19 situation we're in.  Has an arbitrator been selected in your case?

If the court granted your MTC, the question of whether small claims has jurisdiction has already been answered.

One piece of advise I can give you is to print a copy of the AAA's consumer rules and place them in a three-ring binder.  This will give you an easy reference to them that you can highlight and write notes on.  You should know the steps involved in the process and when your deadlines are.

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@fisthardcheese here is the response to the settlement email. Is she bluffing? I can't see on AAA what they've paid. Also this is the same amount offered when she cornered me before court.

"Thank you for your offer of settlement.  At this time, the Plaintiff has incurred a cost of $4200 under the current arbitration process and is unable to accept your offer of a mutual dismissal. However,  I am able to counter your settlement offer at this time.  The plaintiff is willing to dismiss with prejudice their claims against you in Denver county under case 2019C69203 with payment to the Plaintiff by you of $4200 and an agreement that you dismiss your claims with prejudice.

 

This offer will expire on Friday, April 24, 2020 at midnight."

 

 

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On 4/22/2020 at 1:33 PM, catlady22 said:

I can't see on AAA what they've paid. Also this is the same amount offered when she cornered me before court.

The letters the AAA has generated will tell you what they've been required to pay so far.  As long as they've paid their $1,400 case management fee, they should be in this for $4,200.

How much did they originally sue you for?

If their counter offer is $4,200, the same as what they offered in the hall outside court, it obviously hasn't improved.  Their arbitration costs and fees will only go up.  This should be an incentive for them to settle.

Is there an amount you're currently able to offer in hopes to reach a mutual dismissal with prejudice?

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44 minutes ago, LaneBlane said:

The letters the AAA has generated will tell you what they've been required to pay so far.  As long as they've paid their $1,400 case management fee, they should be in this for $4,200.

How much did they originally sue you for?

If their counter offer is $4,200, the same as what they offered in the hall outside court, it obviously hasn't improved.  Their arbitration costs and fees will only go up.  This should be an incentive for them to settle.

Is there an amount you're currently able to offer in hopes to reach a mutual dismissal with prejudice?

The last letter I received said: An arbitrator is appointed; therefore, the Case Management Fee is now due from the business per the Costs of Arbitration provision of the Consumer Arbitration Rules. The billing representative for the business separately receives invoices. This fee is due on or before April 27, 2020. 
 

I don't have the original amount right in front of me at the moment but it was about 6800. 
 

I am not sure of an amount, especially now that both my husband and I were laid off due to COVID19. We are literally toeing the line of bankruptcy.

 

EDIT - I just got a letter that confirms the arbitrator and it says: "As requested by the arbitrator, if either party or their counsel knows of any contact or conflict that may be relevant, they are to communicate this information to the American Arbitration Association (AAA) immediately.
As of this date, the AAA has not received the $1400 payment for the Case Management Fee. As a reminder, payment or the courtesy of a response from Respondent, Portfolio Recovery Associates, LLC is due no later than April 27, 2020. Once payment of this fee is received we will proceed with scheduling the telephonic Preliminary Hearing.
Please be reminded that the business􏰀 failure to pay this fee may result in the arbitrator suspending the proceedings."

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30 minutes ago, catlady22 said:

The last letter I received said: An arbitrator is appointed; therefore, the Case Management Fee is now due from the business per the Costs of Arbitration provision of the Consumer Arbitration Rules. The billing representative for the business separately receives invoices. This fee is due on or before April 27, 2020. 
 

I don't have the original amount right in front of me at the moment but it was about 6800. 
 

I am not sure of an amount, especially now that both my husband and I were laid off due to COVID19. We are literally toeing the line of bankruptcy. 

I am sorry to hear this.  I hope you are both working again soon, and I hope you stay healthy.   

The silver lining is, you have leverage.  If you are on the edge of BK, then if you do file for BK, this debt can be part of it.  All they would get would be whatever percentage of your assets they are entitled to.  A BK attorney could tell you FAR more than I ever could.  

Your leverage is this: if they are not willing to settle for an amount equal to or less than what you would pay them in BK, which might actually be nothing, you can let them spend all their money in arbitration, get their award, and then see their award vanish in BK.  

The flip side is: if your financial situation improves, which I hope it does, and you are able to avoid BK, you lose some of your leverage.  

Either way, you have the leverage of them at some point getting tired of the bills for arbitration.

One possibility would be to let them know you have both lost your jobs, and ask if they have any programs to forgive loans for unemployed.  Most of the time they won't, but it won't hurt to ask.  

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36 minutes ago, BackFromTheDebt said:

I am sorry to hear this.  I hope you are both working again soon, and I hope you stay healthy.   

The silver lining is, you have leverage.  If you are on the edge of BK, then if you do file for BK, this debt can be part of it.  All they would get would be whatever percentage of your assets they are entitled to.  A BK attorney could tell you FAR more than I ever could.  

Your leverage is this: if they are not willing to settle for an amount equal to or less than what you would pay them in BK, which might actually be nothing, you can let them spend all their money in arbitration, get their award, and then see their award vanish in BK.  

The flip side is: if your financial situation improves, which I hope it does, and you are able to avoid BK, you lose some of your leverage.  

Either way, you have the leverage of them at some point getting tired of the bills for arbitration.

One possibility would be to let them know you have both lost your jobs, and ask if they have any programs to forgive loans for unemployed.  Most of the time they won't, but it won't hurt to ask.  

I don't think I have any assets, so I don't know what, if anything, could be taken. I have a 12 year old car and a wedding ring, that's about it. 

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