catlady22

Colorado - being sued by Portfolio Recovery

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1 hour ago, BackFromTheDebt said:

Your leverage is this: if they are not willing to settle for an amount equal to or less than what you would pay them in BK, which might actually be nothing, you can let them spend all their money in arbitration, get their award, and then see their award vanish in BK.  

One possibility would be to let them know you have both lost your jobs, and ask if they have any programs to forgive loans for unemployed.  Most of the time they won't, but it won't hurt to ask.  


I'd also communicate to them that you and your husband have lost your jobs as a result of COVID-19 and will likely need to file BK.  This may make them cave before they're forced to pay any additional arbitration costs.

If they were originally seeking about $6,800, they've already spent more than 60% of this following you into arbitration with no guarantee of getting an award.  If they know any award would go *poof* in BK, they may just give up.

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2 hours ago, LaneBlane said:
 
 


I'd also communicate to them that you and your husband have lost your jobs as a result of COVID-19 and will likely need to file BK.  This may make them cave before they're forced to pay any additional arbitration costs.

If they were originally seeking about $6,800, they've already spent more than 60% of this following you into arbitration with no guarantee of getting an award.  If they know any award would go *poof* in BK, they may just give up.

I thought I read this somewhere (and I could very well be nuts and it has nothing to do with this) but is there some sort of federal law that their attorney wouldn't be able to communicate with me if I mention BK? Again, I might be thinking of something else entirely.

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14 minutes ago, catlady22 said:

I thought I read this somewhere (and I could very well be nuts and it has nothing to do with this) but is there some sort of federal law that their attorney wouldn't be able to communicate with me if I mention BK? Again, I might be thinking of something else entirely.

No. 
 

If you hire an attorney they can no longer talk to you except through your attorney.  If you are representing yourself in arbitration, and have not retained an attorney, they have to talk to you directly.  
 

 

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Well crap. They paid and it's time to schedule the preliminary hearing.  Kind of panicking...what do I expect now? I tried calling the lawyer to explain I'm on the verge of BK but there's no answer at the number should I email her? Or is she gonna going to go all the way now that the case management fee is paid?

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2 hours ago, Goody_Ouchless said:

Let them run up their arb costs and then BK - they deserve to be taught a lesson on this one.

 

This might be a good strategy.

You don't HAVE to BK until after the arbitration hearing.  By that time, who knows what will be going on in this economy.  

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4 hours ago, catlady22 said:

I tried calling the lawyer to explain I'm on the verge of BK but there's no answer at the number should I email her?

If you are going to file then file.  The reality is they hear that threat hundreds of times a month.  It carries no weight.  What does have strength is filing.  Once you file they cannot touch you.  If you want to wait that is fine as well but there is no reason to drop the threat because they will not see it as one.

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@Clydesmom is correct.

The thing is, bankruptcy is a weapon that can only be used infrequently.  Once you file, you can't file again for a while.  That is why people who have recently BK are often given more credit than usual.  

These are extremely uncertain times.  Nobody has a clue what the economy will be like in the near future.  We as a nation could take a mild hit, or it could be a disaster.  Nobody can predict what will happen to you, personally, in the near future. 

The danger is if you file BK now, and after you are finished, bad things happen.  

Suppose you let this run its course.  Suppose between now and the end, your financial situation has gotten worse.  In that case, you would be happy to have waited to file BK.  OTOH, if things haven't gotten worse, you haven't lost much by waiting.  If things have gotten better, you may be in a position to pay things off.  

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Call AAA and ask if the other side has paid any of the fees due yet.  AAA will often tell you the total paid by the other side to date.  If that amount does not total $4200 - which I am positive it does not and is more like $750 at this point (IF they were required to pay your $200 portion), then I would send an email to the attorney to reject their offer.  I would then send an email to the arbitrator with the attorney copied and ask for permission to file an amended complaint.  I would then type up a new complaint adding an FDCPA violation for lying about their costs to you and ask for an additional $1000 added to whatever you initially asked for in your filing.  Once the Arbitrator responds giving you permission to file the amended complaint, I would send the new FDCPA complaint to both the attorney and arbitrator by email.

Optionally, my next offer, when the attorney eventually wants to dismiss the case and get out of this would be a $1,000 payment to me and dismissal with prejudice in exchange for dropping my arbitration case against them.  Depending on how hard you want to push back on them.

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24 minutes ago, fisthardcheese said:

Call AAA and ask if the other side has paid any of the fees due yet.  AAA will often tell you the total paid by the other side to date.  If that amount does not total $4200 - which I am positive it does not and is more like $750 at this point (IF they were required to pay your $200 portion), then I would send an email to the attorney to reject their offer.  I would then send an email to the arbitrator with the attorney copied and ask for permission to file an amended complaint.  I would then type up a new complaint adding an FDCPA violation for lying about their costs to you and ask for an additional $1000 added to whatever you initially asked for in your filing.  Once the Arbitrator responds giving you permission to file the amended complaint, I would send the new FDCPA complaint to both the attorney and arbitrator by email.

Optionally, my next offer, when the attorney eventually wants to dismiss the case and get out of this would be a $1,000 payment to me and dismissal with prejudice in exchange for dropping my arbitration case against them.  Depending on how hard you want to push back on them.

Thanks!! I'll call and do that Monday. All I know is I got an email saying they paid the case management fee, so 1400, plus whatever the filing fee was...not sure what else would have to be done to get to this point. I've gone in to their wonky calendar and set my availability for the preliminary hearing, the attorney has not.

I don't think I ever filed anything asking for something (your point about adding 1k). The most was the MTC. I haven't done anything with AAA like a brief or my complaints against PRA. Did I miss a step?

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On 5/2/2020 at 8:29 PM, fisthardcheese said:

Call AAA and ask if the other side has paid any of the fees due yet.  AAA will often tell you the total paid by the other side to date.  If that amount does not total $4200 - which I am positive it does not and is more like $750 at this point (IF they were required to pay your $200 portion), then I would send an email to the attorney to reject their offer.  I would then send an email to the arbitrator with the attorney copied and ask for permission to file an amended complaint.  I would then type up a new complaint adding an FDCPA violation for lying about their costs to you and ask for an additional $1000 added to whatever you initially asked for in your filing.  Once the Arbitrator responds giving you permission to file the amended complaint, I would send the new FDCPA complaint to both the attorney and arbitrator by email.

Optionally, my next offer, when the attorney eventually wants to dismiss the case and get out of this would be a $1,000 payment to me and dismissal with prejudice in exchange for dropping my arbitration case against them.  Depending on how hard you want to push back on them.

Thank you! I called AAA and they said I need to email the case manager (I am assuming that's the ProSeAdmin email address?) When asking for a breakdown of costs paid to date do I need to CC the attorney? I've been reprimanded for not doing that in an email to AAA but not sure if this is different. Thanks !

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22 hours ago, catlady22 said:

Thank you! I called AAA and they said I need to email the case manager (I am assuming that's the ProSeAdmin email address?) When asking for a breakdown of costs paid to date do I need to CC the attorney? I've been reprimanded for not doing that in an email to AAA but not sure if this is different. Thanks !

Have you received confirmation from the Pro Se Administrator that the other party has paid their case management fee?   If so, the previous fees/costs owed by the JDB have been paid.  Once the case management fee is paid, a preliminary hearing (by phone) will be scheduled.

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1 minute ago, LaneBlane said:

Have you received confirmation from the Pro Se Administrator that the other party has paid their case management fee?   If so, the previous fees/costs owed by the JDB have been paid.  Once the case management fee is paid, a preliminary hearing (by phone) will be scheduled.

Yup the prelim is scheduled. I think the point that @fisthardcheese is making is that their costs probably aren't 4800 as they claimed.

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7 hours ago, catlady22 said:

Yup the prelim is scheduled. I think the point that @fisthardcheese is making is that their costs probably aren't 4800 as they claimed.

In my case, once the other side pays their $1,400 case management fee, I believe they'll be at the $4,500 mark.

You're at a crossroad where you need to decide if you'd like to file for BK.  I'd recommend re-reading through the comments that have been left for you.  There are some arguments for and against BK. A good BK attorney can help you make this decision based on your set of circumstances.

 

 

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So according to this https://www.adr.org/sites/default/files/Consumer_Fee_Schedule_1.pdf

 

Shouldn't they have paid $1900 by now? Also @fisthardcheese since I received that brief that they want me to pay 4800 (arb costs to date they claim) way before AAA sent a letter saying they had not received the 1400 and PRA promptly paid that and the arb was assigned - does your advice still stand re: filing a new complaint for misrepresentation of their cost to date?

 

I sent an email to see if I can get an invoice of what they've paid and when.

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On 5/6/2020 at 11:27 PM, catlady22 said:

Shouldn't they have paid $1900 by now? Also @fisthardcheese since I received that brief that they want me to pay 4800 (arb costs to date they claim) way before AAA sent a letter saying they had not received the 1400 and PRA promptly paid that and the arb was assigned - does your advice still stand re: filing a new complaint for misrepresentation of their cost to date?

Here are the Respondent's fees in my case:

Filing Fee: $300
Arbitrator's Compensation Deposit: $2,500
Case Management Fee: $1,400
Total: $4,200

I don't believe you're entitled to an accounting of the other side's costs, fees, and payments.  The AAA should be able to confirm whether or not a particular cost/fee has been paid by the other side.  Don't expect a detailed accounting.

They offered to settle for $4,800, the amount they believe the arbitration process will cost them to get started.  I don't understand why you would file a new complaint about this.

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On 5/2/2020 at 8:29 PM, fisthardcheese said:

Call AAA and ask if the other side has paid any of the fees due yet.  AAA will often tell you the total paid by the other side to date.  If that amount does not total $4200 - which I am positive it does not and is more like $750 at this point (IF they were required to pay your $200 portion), then I would send an email to the attorney to reject their offer.  I would then send an email to the arbitrator with the attorney copied and ask for permission to file an amended complaint.  I would then type up a new complaint adding an FDCPA violation for lying about their costs to you and ask for an additional $1000 added to whatever you initially asked for in your filing.  Once the Arbitrator responds giving you permission to file the amended complaint, I would send the new FDCPA complaint to both the attorney and arbitrator by email.

Optionally, my next offer, when the attorney eventually wants to dismiss the case and get out of this would be a $1,000 payment to me and dismissal with prejudice in exchange for dropping my arbitration case against them.  Depending on how hard you want to push back on them.

Damn. They have paid.  Just got this from AAA. I never heard a reply on my objection on their brief asking for me to repay their arb costs either.
 

"Hello,

 

We note both Parties were copied on the email below. To date, the AAA has received the following payments from Respondent:

 

$300 Filing fee (administrative)

$1400 Case management fee (administrative)

$2500 Arbitrator’s compensation deposit

 

With all payments now received, the preliminary hearing has been set"

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I am surprised the JDB paid this.  How much is the debt, in round, ballpark figures?  Usually JDBs fold rather than pay arb fees.

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10 minutes ago, nobk4me said:

I am surprised the JDB paid this.  How much is the debt, in round, ballpark figures?  Usually JDBs fold rather than pay arb fees.

$6800

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On 5/12/2020 at 6:41 PM, catlady22 said:

$6800

So they paid $4200 so far to collect a $6800 debt.  Not making sense. Usually they fold, cut their losses and move on to easier prey.  Do they know they can't recover arb fees from you?  Is there any reason for them to come after you like this?  Anything on your credit reports, like a high paying job?

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34 minutes ago, nobk4me said:

So they paid $4200 so far to collect a $6800 debt.  Not making sense. Usually they fold, cut their losses and move on to easier prey.  Do they know they can't recover arb fees from you?  Is there any reason for them to come after you like this?  Anything on your credit reports, like a high paying job?

I know I'm surprised myself. I definitely do not have a high paying job, in fact I'm currently unemployed due to COVID19. My credit score is garbage. I have no idea why they did this? I can only wonder if the attorney has almost a personal vendetta now - the day in court I presented the MTC she cornered me beforehand and started off all sweet, trying to settle (for 4800, ironically) and when I said no, I wanted to proceed to the judge to order arb, it was like a Jeckyll and Hyde switch. She got nasty and said arb was going to cost me so much money, blah blah. Even in front of the judge she was grasping at strings, and basically had nothing, and he said he was glad at least *I* showed up prepared and well spoken (lol.) 

PRA did call this morning from one of their 200000 numbers, but I missed it.

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About the jobs on credit reports: sometimes an old employer, where you don't work anymore, will be on the reports for years.  I'm convinced employment is the main thing they look for, as it means wages to garnish.  So I would advise reviewing your credit reports and removing anything that isn't current and correct.  Since you're now unemployed due to Covid I would declare your job status to be unemployed on the reports.  

All I can suggest is keep going in arb and try to run up their costs.  Maybe at some point someone will come to their senses.

I know, at first we all said arb was a sure way to beat them.  This usually doesn't happen.

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4 minutes ago, nobk4me said:

About the jobs on credit reports: sometimes an old employer, where you don't work anymore, will be on the reports for years.  I'm convinced employment is the main thing they look for, as it means wages to garnish.  So I would advise reviewing your credit reports and removing anything that isn't current and correct.  Since you're now unemployed due to Covid I would declare your job status to be unemployed on the reports.  

All I can suggest is keep going in arb and try to run up their costs.  Maybe at some point someone will come to their senses.

I know, at first we all said arb was a sure way to beat them.  This usually doesn't happen.

Nope. I've never had a job that paid more than 25-30K a year. It is bizarre.

 

 

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On 5/15/2020 at 12:39 PM, nobk4me said:

About the jobs on credit reports: sometimes an old employer, where you don't work anymore, will be on the reports for years.  I'm convinced employment is the main thing they look for, as it means wages to garnish.  So I would advise reviewing your credit reports and removing anything that isn't current and correct.  Since you're now unemployed due to Covid I would declare your job status to be unemployed on the reports.  

All I can suggest is keep going in arb and try to run up their costs.  Maybe at some point someone will come to their senses.

I know, at first we all said arb was a sure way to beat them.  This usually doesn't happen.

When you say run up their costs - do you mean filing objections? Asking for an in person hearing? Basically what are all the ways I can stretch this out for them?

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