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MikeyinFL

Lack of personal jurisdiction question?

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Hi, I am looking for some help in regards to lack of personal jurisdiction and thank you all in advance for any info or help.

If a lawsuit is brought for breach of contract, can the OC sue you in a court other then the court in the county you live? If not, would motion to dismiss due to lack of personal jurisdiction and wrong venue likely be granted? Any insight would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!

 

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10 hours ago, MikeyinFL said:

can the OC sue you in a court other then the court in the county you live?

Probably not. 

10 hours ago, MikeyinFL said:

would motion to dismiss due to lack of personal jurisdiction and wrong venue likely be granted?

Probably. 

It all depends on your court rules, what type of lawsuit you're talking about and what types of courts are available in the different counties, so that's where I'd start looking for a more definitive answer. 

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There are other factors.

For example, if you previously lived in County A, took out the debt in County A, defaulted in County A, and your last known address was in County A, it is possible they would allow the suit in County A, even if you had since moved to County B.  Or they might grant a MTD without prejudice, and the plaintiff would just refile in County B.  

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31 minutes ago, BackFromTheDebt said:

if you previously lived in County A, took out the debt in County A, defaulted in County A, and your last known address was in County A, it is possible they would allow the suit in County A, even if you had since moved to County B.

This would depend on his local court rules, and what courts are available in County B.

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6 hours ago, Harry Seaward said:
 

This would depend on his local court rules, and what courts are available in County B.

Exactly.  

It is important -- the answer to many issues vary from state to state, county to county within a state, judge to judge within a court, or even vary depending on the judge's mood that particular day.  

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What if you lived, still live and the alleged allegations are all in County A,and, county A has courts that deal with these cases. With those clarifying facts would a motion to dismiss likely be granted?  Thank you again in advance for your help! 

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6 minutes ago, MikeyinFL said:

What if you lived, still live and the alleged allegations are all in County A,and, county A has courts that deal with these cases. With those clarifying facts would a motion to dismiss likely be granted?  Thank you again in advance for your help! 

Walk me through it,  

Was the lawsuit filed in County A?  Do you currently live in County A?  Did you open the account in County A?

Just a note:  Even if the court granted your motion to dismiss for lack of jurisdiction, the plaintiff could refile in the proper jurisdiction.  The court’s dismissal would not prevent a lawsuit in the correct county. 

 

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6 minutes ago, BV80 said:

Walk me through it,  

Was the lawsuit filed in County A?  Do you currently live in County A?  Did you open the account in County A?

Just a note:  Even if the court granted your motion to dismiss for lack of jurisdiction, the plaintiff could refile in the proper jurisdiction.  The court’s dismissal would not prevent a lawsuit in the correct county. 

 

Everything in County A. I realize they could refile but was first wondering if this was a clear cut granting of motion to dismiss? I realize they can refill but they will also realize they won’t just win by default. Thanks again for your insight.

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Your original question was whether they could sue you in a different county. It sounds like you're saying you live in the same county you were sued.

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On 2/7/2020 at 1:58 PM, Harry Seaward said:

Your original question was whether they could sue you in a different county. It sounds like you're saying you live in the same county you were sued.

No, I don't live in the same county(B),  I live in county A and everything is in County A but they filed in County B. I know they can refile in County A but was just wondering if there was any reason I was missing of why my motion to dismiss in county b would be denied? sorry for any confusion and thanks for your help! 

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Assuming your local county courts can hear the type of case you were sued for, they should have sued you in your county. The only other exception would be if there is some local rule that permits them to sue in neighboring county courts. 

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On 2/10/2020 at 11:27 AM, Harry Seaward said:

Assuming your local county courts can hear the type of case you were sued for, they should have sued you in your county. The only other exception would be if there is some local rule that permits them to sue in neighboring county courts. 

thank you!

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In almost every jurisdiction, if the contract was entered in location A and then you moved to location B, they can sue you in location A. “They can argue that the defendant personally avoided themselves of the laws and protections of said state” 

On top of that if they can prove that you lived in that state, they could argue that you meet the minimum contacts in that state.

I’ve been a party to an out of state lawsuit before.

My guess is that they usually sue you in the county you currently live in simply because they have attorneys under contract in all 50 states, they win 99.999% of these cases without doing any work, and if they beat you in a state you do not currently live in then it’s a complete pain in the a$$ for that attorney.

if you lived in Georgia when you defaulted or entered into the agreement and then moved to say Utah. An attorney in Georgia could sue you in Georgia, get a default judgment, domesticate it into a Utah judgment, and then go through the Utah courts to garnish your wages and levy your bank. I’m guessing it’s a lot cheaper and less of a hassle to just send the case to one of their Utah attorneys and just get the judgment in Utah without having to go through all those unnecessary steps. 
 

These JDB’s want to do as little work as possible. I would imagine it’s a little bit of a pain in the a$$ for them to collect if you start moving after they get a judgment, not that they couldn’t enforce it if they tried.

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The first issue would be with service. Many states require that personal service occur within the state (remember that these are state courts). You don''t necessarily have to reside in the state, just that you were served within state lines. Also, if the plaintiff or their attorney knows where a person resides and it is out of state and try to claim they do not know where the person is to do alternate service, that is perjury and falls into criminal charges and they don't want to go there.

The second issue would be to domesticate such a default in the defendants home state. The defendant could simply tell the courts in the state that they reside in that the judgement was obtained unfairly and the courts could deny the domestication of the judgement. Without that, they would have to go to the state courts anyways. Also, you could have a situation where 2 states do not get along and the courts would never domesticate a judgement from the other state (New York and Wisconsin comes to mind immediately).

Finally, it is very hard (and expensive) to keep domesticating judgements as a debtor moves around. I heard about a case like that from a landlord who gave up after the debtor moved to their 3rd or 4th state after being evicted. It is not a simple process and in many cases, almost as if you are starting to get the judgement again.

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15 hours ago, upcycleliving said:

In almost every jurisdiction, if the contract was entered in location A and then you moved to location B, they can sue you in location A. “They can argue that the defendant personally avoided themselves of the laws and protections of said state” 

No.  First and foremost it depends on what kind of contract is being sued upon.  Your statement is way too broad and general to be accurate.

15 hours ago, upcycleliving said:

My guess is that they usually sue you in the county you currently live in simply because they have attorneys under contract in all 50 states, they win 99.999% of these cases without doing any work, and if they beat you in a state you do not currently live in then it’s a complete pain in the a$$ for that attorney.

Stop guessing.  The law isn't based upon guessing.  They sue where the defendant because it is required for debt cases.  Criminal cases, family law (i.e. custody and divorce), or real property will result in multi-state jurisdiction.  NOT debt cases. The onetime a debt case may cross state lines is if the Plaintiff sues at the last known location of the Defendant and the Defendant moves after the case is filed and/or served.  It can take 6 months to as long as a year to establish residency in another state when it comes to the jurisdiction of the courts.

15 hours ago, upcycleliving said:

if you lived in Georgia when you defaulted or entered into the agreement and then moved to say Utah. An attorney in Georgia could sue you in Georgia, get a default judgment, domesticate it into a Utah judgment, and then go through the Utah courts to garnish your wages and levy your bank.

NO.  I lived in GA for 17 years.  Including the height of the recession when lawsuits for defaulted debt proliferated.  One prominent GA debt mill dunned me.  I DV'D and they took almost 2 years to respond to the DV with statements and the card agreement. By that time I had moved half way across the country after getting re-employed.  That firm could not pursue me through the GA courts as GA no longer had jurisdiction.  By the time they turned the account back over to the JDB and then another firm in my current state was hired the SOL had expired. 

15 hours ago, upcycleliving said:

I’m guessing it’s a lot cheaper and less of a hassle to just send the case to one of their Utah attorneys and just get the judgment in Utah without having to go through all those unnecessary steps. 

Again, stop guessing.  It is not based on cost or hassle.  It is required on debt cases the defendantbe sued in the jurisdiction in which they reside currently.  

 

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On 2/22/2020 at 11:51 AM, Clydesmom said:

No.  First and foremost it depends on what kind of contract is being sued upon.  Your statement is way too broad and general to be accurate.

Stop guessing.  The law isn't based upon guessing.  They sue where the defendant because it is required for debt cases.  Criminal cases, family law (i.e. custody and divorce), or real property will result in multi-state jurisdiction.  NOT debt cases. The onetime a debt case may cross state lines is if the Plaintiff sues at the last known location of the Defendant and the Defendant moves after the case is filed and/or served.  It can take 6 months to as long as a year to establish residency in another state when it comes to the jurisdiction of the courts.

NO.  I lived in GA for 17 years.  Including the height of the recession when lawsuits for defaulted debt proliferated.  One prominent GA debt mill dunned me.  I DV'D and they took almost 2 years to respond to the DV with statements and the card agreement. By that time I had moved half way across the country after getting re-employed.  That firm could not pursue me through the GA courts as GA no longer had jurisdiction.  By the time they turned the account back over to the JDB and then another firm in my current state was hired the SOL had expired. 

Again, stop guessing.  It is not based on cost or hassle.  It is required on debt cases the defendantbe sued in the jurisdiction in which they reside currently.  

 

 

 First of all when I was "guessing" I was talking about the business model not the law. Portfolio Recovery, Calvary, and whatever other JDB probably has attorney's in all 50 states so it's easier for them to get a judgment in the state you live in then get an out of state judgment and then have to file it in a sister state's courts.

 

I just looked up 15 U.S. Code § 1692 of the FDCPA and it says a debt collector can sue you only in the judicial district where you signed the contract underlying the debt or where you reside or where the real property securing the debt is located. 

This sounds to me like if you sign up for a credit card in North Dakota, max it out and stop making payments, and you move to Florida. They can sue you in either Florida and North Dakota.

As far as their business model, an attorney in North Dakota does not want to spend a bunch of their time trying to collect in Florida. They aren't setup to collect in Florida. The more time they spend on this case the less profit they make so it makes a lot more sense for the JDB to farm the case out to a debt collection firm in Florida than North Dakota. That's all I was getting at.
 

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