tinyturtle

Barclays Arbitration Noob Questions

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@LaneBlane @fisthardcheese Thank you again for all this great information! Will definitely work on making my case/story sound way less complicated and to the point. Appreciate the ideas on what to ask for in regards to discovery and for a witness. If anything else comes to mind please do share!

To confirm, on the call, I would request 30 days to submit my detailed brief and schedule the hearing 3-4 months out to allow for proper discovery? And do I need anything formal written ready to submit or just to have my case/story ironed out and ready to present?

 

On 1/6/2021 at 6:40 PM, LaneBlane said:

 

If there was a glitch, you should easily be able to identify this by reviewing a running balance of your account.  Have you requested this from Barclays or their attorney?  

I did not request it since I was able to view it on my monthly statements. But I will add it to my list of requests.

On 1/6/2021 at 6:40 PM, LaneBlane said:

You said you sent a demand letter asking for $19,000, the amount you weren't awarded in the original dispute.  You've already been awarded $13,000 which represented the balance of your $32,000 charge.  Does this mean you're asking for a total of $32,000 in damages for FCRA violations?

@LaneBlane I am requesting the ~ 19k and the  $500 in fees. For a total of ~ 20k.

 

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On 1/8/2021 at 5:38 PM, tinyturtle said:
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You said you sent a demand letter asking for $19,000, the amount you weren't awarded in the original dispute.  You've already been awarded $13,000 which represented the balance of your $32,000 charge.  Does this mean you're asking for a total of $32,000 in damages for FCRA violations?

@LaneBlane I am requesting the ~ 19k and the  $500 in fees. For a total of ~ 20k.

 

Is $19,500 the current balance of your account?   I just want to understand if you're asking them to write you a check, or if you simply want them to correct the balance with no exchange of money.

 

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3 hours ago, LaneBlane said:

 

Is $19,500 the current balance of your account?   I just want to understand if you're asking them to write you a check, or if you simply want them to correct the balance with no exchange of money.

 

No. After my demand letter was sent to Barclays the lawyer wiped my balance to 0 because he understood what happened with the glitch. However, the amount he wiped was a couple hundred dollars in fees and such that was charged per the glitch and their failure to correct it/answer my calls. If you recall I had already paid 19k before disputing the charge and around $500 in fees and interest before I myself realized what was going on with the their glitch. 

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48 minutes ago, tinyturtle said:

After my demand letter was sent to Barclays the lawyer wiped my balance to 0 because he understood what happened with the glitch.

 

50 minutes ago, tinyturtle said:

However, the amount he wiped was a couple hundred dollars in fees and such that was charged per the glitch and their failure to correct it/answer my calls.

 

The two statements above are inconsistent.  Did the Barclays attorney reduce your balance to $0 or did he only remove a couple hundred dollars in fees?

What is the current balance of this account?

 

51 minutes ago, tinyturtle said:

If you recall I had already paid 19k before disputing the charge and around $500 in fees and interest before I myself realized what was going on with the their glitch. 

If I recall correctly you said you charged $32k on your account and paid $19k, reducing the balance to $13k.   Why did you dispute the charge?

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6 hours ago, LaneBlane said:

 

 

The two statements above are inconsistent.  Did the Barclays attorney reduce your balance to $0 or did he only remove a couple hundred dollars in fees?

What is the current balance of this account?

 

If I recall correctly you said you charged $32k on your account and paid $19k, reducing the balance to $13k.   Why did you dispute the charge?

I apologize for the confusion let me try to break it down simply. Initial charge was 32k. 19k was paid shortly after. 13k was won in the dispute. Since I paid 19k they refused to reward that dispute. Dispute was for goods not received.

Besides for the 19k paid, I also paid some minimum payments and interest that shouldn’t have been paid (around $500) until I realized the error they made. 
 

The current balance is $0. Prior to the wipe by the lawyer there were a couple hundred dollars in interest and late fees that I did not pay after recognizing their accounting error. After my demand letter was sent clearly laying out their accounting error the lawyer seemed to have wiped that balance to 0, without telling me, but did not agree to any of my other demands.

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16 hours ago, tinyturtle said:

13k was won in the dispute. Since I paid 19k they refused to reward that dispute. Dispute was for goods not received.

$13,000 was the balance that remained on the account after you made a $19k payment.  Right?  So, you filed a credit card dispute in the amount of $13k for goods not received?  Was this on a single purchase?  Also, do you have something in writing from the credit card company saying the dispute was ruled in your favor?  You don't have to answer this... just curious what the purchase was for.

16 hours ago, tinyturtle said:

Besides for the 19k paid, I also paid some minimum payments and interest that shouldn’t have been paid (around $500) until I realized the error they made.

OK.  Now I understand this part.

16 hours ago, tinyturtle said:

The current balance is $0. Prior to the wipe by the lawyer there were a couple hundred dollars in interest and late fees that I did not pay after recognizing their accounting error. After my demand letter was sent clearly laying out their accounting error the lawyer seemed to have wiped that balance to 0, without telling me, but did not agree to any of my other demands.

It seems as though you're entitled to a reimbursement of the interest and late fees you paid that shouldn't have been added to your account.  Can you break down everything above and beyond this that represents other damages you're seeking.  (Have your insurance rates or any interest premiums gone up as a result of your reduced credit score?)

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1 hour ago, LaneBlane said:

$13,000 was the balance that remained on the account after you made a $19k payment.  Right?  So, you filed a credit card dispute in the amount of $13k for goods not received?  Was this on a single purchase?  Also, do you have something in writing from the credit card company saying the dispute was ruled in your favor?  You don't have to answer this... just curious what the purchase was for.

I filed a dispute for the full amount. They only rewarded me for 13k (remaining balance not the full 32k) and said since I paid the 19k already I am not entitled to the dispute.
 

yes I have the letter awarding my dispute for the 13k 

1 hour ago, LaneBlane said:

OK.  Now I understand this part.

sorry it took so long for me to explain it! Welcoming any tips on how you best feel I should explain it going forward. 

1 hour ago, LaneBlane said:

It seems as though you're entitled to a reimbursement of the interest and late fees you paid that shouldn't have been added to your account.  Can you break down everything above and beyond this that represents other damages you're seeking.  (Have your insurance rates or any interest premiums gone up as a result of your reduced credit score?)

I can’t say it’s a direct correlation that I was denied credit or rates increased. But, I also can’t say it’s not. If that makes any sense. 
 

was hoping you could just respond/confirm to these questions I posted a couple days back if you have a moment:

To confirm, on the call, I would request 30 days to submit my detailed brief and schedule the hearing 3-4 months out to allow for proper discovery? And do I need anything formal written ready to submit or just to have my case/story ironed out and ready to present?

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19 hours ago, tinyturtle said:

I filed a dispute for the full amount. They only rewarded me for 13k (remaining balance not the full 32k) and said since I paid the 19k already I am not entitled to the dispute.

yes I have the letter awarding my dispute for the 13k 

Now I understand.

In my opinion the fact that you paid $19k of the $32k charge you disputed shouldn't make a difference.  Let's say I purchased a $3,500 guitar for my husband that was a special order that would take four weeks to ship.  If I received the credit card bill before that time, paid the full amount, and the guitar was never received, I would still be able to file a credit card dispute for goods not received.  (Technically a merchant isn't supposed to charge a customer's card until the item ships.

I don't know anything about the nature of your credit card dispute for goods not received.  Can you offer a brief explanation you're comfortable with?  What's the merchant's side of the story?

Have you searched online for Barclays policies concerning chargebacks?

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22 hours ago, tinyturtle said:

was hoping you could just respond/confirm to these questions I posted a couple days back if you have a moment:

To confirm, on the call, I would request 30 days to submit my detailed brief and schedule the hearing 3-4 months out to allow for proper discovery? And do I need anything formal written ready to submit or just to have my case/story ironed out and ready to present?

I didn't prepare a brief in my case, so I can't advise you on this.  If they ask for one during the call, you can tell them you can have one prepared within 30-days if that's how long it will take you.

I personally believe you need to deal with some issues on your case as a whole.  Understanding the nature of your credit card dispute (your side vs. the merchants') would be helpful to me if you need some guidance.  You said you did not receive what you paid for.  Was the item shipped and never arrived?   I own both an online and a brick-and-mortar store, so I may be able to help.

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22 hours ago, LaneBlane said:

I didn't prepare a brief in my case, so I can't advise you on this.  If they ask for one during the call, you can tell them you can have one prepared within 30-days if that's how long it will take you.

I personally believe you need to deal with some issues on your case as a whole.  Understanding the nature of your credit card dispute (your side vs. the merchants') would be helpful to me if you need some guidance.  You said you did not receive what you paid for.  Was the item shipped and never arrived?   I own both an online and a brick-and-mortar store, so I may be able to help.

Appreciate all the help and the willingness to provide further guidance.
 

Without going into to much detail... The item never shipped in the first place and the merchant, which I never had issues with before, had no interest in responding. It’s pretty complicated to explain and I hope you can understand that I am not willing to post publicly about the dispute but am happy to discuss it privately if you have the time/interest. 
 

But, I am going of the logic, and I had a lawyer confer with me, that if they resolved and ruled in my favor part of my dispute it’s not equitable for them to not rule in my favor for the rest.

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2 hours ago, tinyturtle said:

Without going into to much detail... The item never shipped in the first place and the merchant, which I never had issues with before, had no interest in responding. It’s pretty complicated to explain and I hope you can understand that I am not willing to post publicly about the dispute but am happy to discuss it privately if you have the time/interest. 
 

But, I am going of the logic, and I had a lawyer confer with me, that if they resolved and ruled in my favor part of my dispute it’s not equitable for them to not rule in my favor for the rest.

I've only had to respond to about five chargebacks since I started my own business 20+ years ago.  If a customer claims they did not receive their merchandise, I need to provide proof of shipping that includes a tracking number and signature confirmation.  Without this, I would be on the losing end.

If I were in your position, one of the first things I would have done is to file a police report with my local police, as well as with the police in the merchant's jurisdiction.  Afterall, by what you're saying, they committed theft to the tune of $19k.

By the way, NEVER go off logic.  What matters here is the law, the FCBA, and the FDCRA.

 

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6 hours ago, LaneBlane said:

I've only had to respond to about five chargebacks since I started my own business 20+ years ago.  If a customer claims they did not receive their merchandise, I need to provide proof of shipping that includes a tracking number and signature confirmation.  Without this, I would be on the losing end.

If I were in your position, one of the first things I would have done is to file a police report with my local police, as well as with the police in the merchant's jurisdiction.  Afterall, by what you're saying, they committed theft to the tune of $19k.

By the way, NEVER go off logic.  What matters here is the law, the FCBA, and the FDCRA.

 

Appreciate the advice. I guess one last question I have for now is will I need to state any of the laws or decent my case on this initial prelim hearing? I’m still searching all the laws and violations and creating my brief and was wondering will we be talking about the case in detail or more so just the timeframe for the first meeting?

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43 minutes ago, tinyturtle said:

Appreciate the advice. I guess one last question I have for now is will I need to state any of the laws or decent my case on this initial prelim hearing? I’m still searching all the laws and violations and creating my brief and was wondering will we be talking about the case in detail or more so just the timeframe for the first meeting?

You won't need to state case law during the preliminary phone hearing.  However, you should know the laws and federal consumer rules that apply.  What's discussed during the preliminary phone hearing will depend on the arbitrator.  My hearing didn't include any discussion about the case itself.

One thing you need to research is what recourse you have if you file a credit card dispute that's dismissed by the credit card company.  What does the FCBA (Fair Credit Billing Act) say about this?  The merchant is the party who received the $19k you're trying to recoup.  Therefore, you need to find out if there's precedent for you to go after Barclays for this.

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On 1/14/2021 at 7:51 PM, LaneBlane said:

You won't need to state case law during the preliminary phone hearing.  However, you should know the laws and federal consumer rules that apply.  What's discussed during the preliminary phone hearing will depend on the arbitrator.  My hearing didn't include any discussion about the case itself.

One thing you need to research is what recourse you have if you file a credit card dispute that's dismissed by the credit card company.  What does the FCBA (Fair Credit Billing Act) say about this?  The merchant is the party who received the $19k you're trying to recoup.  Therefore, you need to find out if there's precedent for you to go after Barclays for this.

@LaneBlane@fisthardcheese Would it be unwise if I confirmed in the prelim hearing my right to an appeal and the fact that it would be in front of a 3 person panel?

Like @fisthardcheese mentions in his pinned post about arbitration these OC's, money is not an issue and they likely won't care to take this till the end. But, perhaps if I remind them I have the right to an appeal, and that I have every intention to take it all the way, they will consider settling now as opposed to when they get the next retainer bill. My main concern is that the arbitrator might see it as a premature discussion and sway her opinion on my intentions.

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On 1/8/2021 at 6:38 PM, tinyturtle said:

And do I need anything formal written ready to submit or just to have my case/story ironed out and ready to present?

Neither. All you need for the first call is to listen carefully and answer the arbitrator's questions. That's all.

2 hours ago, tinyturtle said:

Would it be unwise if I confirmed in the prelim hearing my right to an appeal and the fact that it would be in front of a 3 person panel?

Yes. Very unwise.

 

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4 minutes ago, fisthardcheese said:

Neither. All you need for the first call is to listen carefully and answer the arbitrator's questions. That's all.

Thank you! Is the case not really discussed? Will I not be called on to discuss my claims on this call?

4 minutes ago, fisthardcheese said:

 

Yes. Very unwise.

I am glad I asked. Appreciate the advice! Is there an alternative or smoother way I can get a similar point across to barclay without sounding unwise?

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1 minute ago, tinyturtle said:

Is there an alternative or smoother way I can get a similar point across to barclay without sounding unwise?

Have a good brief filed backed by evidence.  Which it sounds like you can provide.  Ask for specific things in discovery to bolster you claims, which have already been pointed out to you, and if they don't provide them, ask the arbitrator for a hearing to compel them to produce requested items.  The more you need the arbitrator to deal with discovery and other issues prior to the hearing the better.

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4 minutes ago, tinyturtle said:

Thank you! Is the case not really discussed? Will I not be called on to discuss my claims on this call?

Nope.  It's a preliminary hearing.  All it is for is to discuss the timeline of events.  The merits of the case is for the final hearing and/or written briefs.

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5 minutes ago, fisthardcheese said:

Have a good brief filed backed by evidence.  Which it sounds like you can provide. 

Hopefully it works out. Finding it difficult to find case law and specific codes they violated to cite in the brief but will keep digging. 

 

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12 minutes ago, tinyturtle said:

Hopefully it works out. Finding it difficult to find case law and specific codes they violated to cite in the brief but will keep digging. 

 

If they violated the card agreement or any other written policy regarding dispute investigations, those are good.  Or heck, if it were me, I would try to establish that only returning partial charges due to a payment being made on a disputed charge is their established practice and it violates RICO.

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3 minutes ago, fisthardcheese said:

If they violated the card agreement or any other written policy regarding dispute investigations, those are good.  Or heck, if it were me, I would try to establish that only returning partial charges due to a payment being made on a disputed charge is their established practice and it violates RICO.

Under their terms they have a right to deny my dispute:

"If you are dissatisfied with the goods or services that you have purchased with your credit card, and you have tried in good faith to correct the problem with the merchant, you may have the right not to pay the remaining amount due on the purchase. "

RICO is a pretty big statement to just throw in the brief. Do you have any advice on how I could incorporate it in my brief? 

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2 hours ago, fisthardcheese said:

If they violated the card agreement or any other written policy regarding dispute investigations, those are good.  Or heck, if it were me, I would try to establish that only returning partial charges due to a payment being made on a disputed charge is their established practice and it violates RICO.

How is that a violation of RICO?

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16 hours ago, tinyturtle said:

Under their terms they have a right to deny my dispute:

"If you are dissatisfied with the goods or services that you have purchased with your credit card, and you have tried in good faith to correct the problem with the merchant, you may have the right not to pay the remaining amount due on the purchase. "

Barclays agreed that you did in fact have the "right" not to pay the "remaining amount due" on the purchase. Why do you believe Barclays should have refunded the $19K you already paid? Is there another clause in this agreement that covers this?

What were the dispute or refund terms of the purchase agreement between you and the merchant? 

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1 hour ago, Brotherskeeper said:

Barclays agreed that you did in fact have the "right" not to pay the "remaining amount due" on the purchase. Why do you believe Barclays should have refunded the $19K you already paid?

It's a great question. I believe that such terms are simply unjust and if I can arbitrate them for free then why not?

Not sure if I can use this but per UDAP 1770: 19) Inserting an unconscionable provision in the contract is a violation. With that, among the other things I am claiming they violated in the initial demand letter, I said if they refunded me the 19k then I wouldn't pursue them for all these other violations. 

Do you think that the arbitrator will just throw out that claim because the terms state they are able to do such or is it not as cut and dry and something I can argue about?

1 hour ago, Brotherskeeper said:

Is there another clause in this agreement that covers this?

No other clause that I have seen that covers this. 

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23 hours ago, tinyturtle said:

RICO is a pretty big statement to just throw in the brief. Do you have any advice on how I could incorporate it in my brief? 

 

21 hours ago, BV80 said:

How is that a violation of RICO?

I don't know that it is without having all of the facts and evidence and looking up RICO cases.  I only recall that a similar argument was used a couple times prior in bank cases, though I don't know how similar the cases were to this off the top of my head.  I am just saying, in regards to op asking what other statutes were available to him, that RICO in addition to things like FCRA, TCPA, UDAP, and Reg Z are things I look at to consider when taking a case deep into arbitration.

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