Are 609 letters legit?

[Casper]

I've read a lot about them, and some people swear by them, while others say they will backfire on you.

Are you really putting the CRA's on the spot by asking them for something they don't have?

[BV80]

17 hours ago, Casper said:

 

I've read a lot about them, and some people swear by them, while others say they will backfire on you.

Are you really putting the CRA's on the spot by asking them for something they don't have?

The 609 dispute “secret” is bogus.  Under § 609 (U.S. Code 1681g), CRAs have to disclose information it has on file.  It cannot disclose information it does not have.  The proponents (scammers) of that method suggest that CRAs must send a copy of a signed contract in order to verify information on a credit report.  That is not true.  In fact, not every account requires a signed contract.  A credit card is an example of one for which no signature required.  Notice those scammers never provide any supporting statute or case law that shows only a signed contract can verify information.  

A "consumer's file includes `all information on the consumer that is recorded and retained by a [consumer reporting agency] that might be furnished, or has been furnished, in a consumer report on that customer." Shaw v. Experian Info Sols. Inc., 891 F.3d 749, 759 (9th Cir. 2018).  Appellants received complete copies of their consumer reports. They are not entitled by the FCRA to information that is not in their report, and they fail to identify what information Experian improperly excluded from its disclosures. Shaw, 891 F.3d, at 760.

In addition, the scammers fail to understand that consumers bear the burden of proving their allegations,  If a consumer claims his report contains inaccurate information, he must prove it.  The same goes for a claim that a CRA did not conduct a complete or satisfactory investigation. 

 

[Casper]

thanks.  that's what i figured.

[admin]

Good info!

[gracephaness]

On 10/17/2020 at 3:26 PM, BV80 said:

ll information on the consumer that is recorded and retained by a [consumer reporting agency] that might be furnished, or has been furnished, in a

This is a shallow understanding of what the letters are for. What was stated was correct, nowhere in the FCRA does it state anything about providing a contract. However there is not a single transaction taking place in the world or an account that exists that does not require a CONTRACT. You can definitely be certain that contract law supercedes the statutes of the FCRA. The contract is the original terms to the agreement, whatever it may be. Debt collectors/third party intervenors are claiming you owe a sum of money to them. When they were not parties to the original contract, therefore can have absolutely no first-hand knowledge of the agreement and what it states. If my letter is simply requesting that you provide information regarding the original issue of credit that is a perfectly valid request. Now as stated, this can never be provided by a third party/debt collector - there were not a party to the original agreement. AND if they did purchase the note or a group of notes - then they should now be able to show proof of purchase/transaction - so that I can know that I am paying the right person. It has happened many times where people have been paying money to the wrong entity the entire term of their loan - because they just assumed the person contacting them had the right to collect money from them. Notice that all lenders for the most part will only settle a dispute under arbitration (of their choice) and never in the courts - because all of their operations are illegal - these unconscionable contracts and unilaterally signed agreements ARE NOT LAWFUL. 

 

Also, the cra's pay for information from data providers, it does clearly state in the FCRA that even if the cra's do use data furnishers, you as the consumer are entitled to find out who disseminated this information about you, the exact person that is responsible at the company or down at the county, or wherever. You are entitled to know who they are, what they furnished, and also be provided written statement by this individual describing the standard procedure for storing information and/or sharing information. Once a real flesh and blood person agrees to submit this affidavit or statement - then they are liable to be sued. The protection of the company would disappear if anyone from the cra's or data furnishing companies came forth to provide what you are asking for.

The reason these letters can and do work is because the companies people are putting their trust in are not operating on the up and up. They would rather just cut their minimal losses and delete some accounts than to revamp the entire way they are doing things. But most lenders make you sign and agree that there will be no court of law involved in any disputes. Only arbitration selected by the company themselves. Ask yourself: if everything is fair why is the contract so one-sided? 

This letters are NOT bogus, I have had success with them numerous times - if you understand how procedure works and a little bit of law - really public statutes - then you might find success using these letters. I am not speaking for everyone preparing these letters and selling the ideas - all I can speak from is personal experience and if you're willing to read the statutes (which are all meant to apply to public officials - not private individuals or persons) you may possibly find a remedy for your situation.

[BV80]

Of course, you would claim they work.  You are a “debt fixer”.  
 

1 hour ago, gracephaness said:

This is a shallow understanding of what the letters are for

What I cited was from the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.  Just give that court your opinion, and I’m sure it will change its ruling.  

 

1 hour ago, gracephaness said:

When they were not parties to the original contract, therefore can have absolutely no first-hand knowledge of the agreement and what it states.

Personal knowledge is required by courts in a lawsuit.  It is not required by the FCRA or credit reporting agencies in order to report information. 

 

1 hour ago, gracephaness said:

If my letter is simply requesting that you provide information regarding the original issue of credit that is a perfectly valid request.

Request it all you want, they are not required to provide it. Furnishers are only required to provide accurate information.  If you assert information is incorrect, you have the burden of proving it.

CRAs cannot provide what is not in a file.  And no court has ruled that a contract is required in order to report to a CRA. 

1 hour ago, gracephaness said:

But most lenders make you sign and agree that there will be no court of law involved in any disputes. Only arbitration selected by the company themselves. Ask yourself: if everything is fair why is the contract so one-sided? 

Most agreements do NOT allow for arbitration only.  In most, it is offered as a choice.  Courts have ruled against one-sided arbitration provisions.  Your statement shows you’re a little behind the times.

We don’t allow debt fixer scams on this site.  Have a good day.