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Jams hearing update….


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@Brotherskeeper Had the Jams hearing.  I was so nervous in the beginning I feel like I screwed up a bit.   Should have really objected more but the judge said he didn’t have to necessarily follow the laws so I didn’t know what to say.  That was right off the bat! So I just kept referring to the laws anyways.  

Judge waited to rule on the BOS until after the custodian of records testified.  I feel like I asked all the right questions.   Was never trained by OC on records.  Couldn’t state how they maintained records or stored records.  For some reason he was allowed to testify on redacted documents where he couldn’t even state the balances due and the judge asked the attorney to stipulate the amounts.  The rest of us had no redacted docs but the judge said that was fine.  Attorney said they couldn’t screen share legally on there computer so everyone has to use paper docs in front of them.  Said couldn’t email custodian the large file so mailed redacted docs.   That pretty much extended the hearing by an hour because everyone had to make sure they were looking at the same paper.   And when the custodian had over redacted docs it was a pain.  Why redact amounts and balances and interest fees? That was sketchy and I couldn’t understand why.   Redaction laws are pretty clear.  Like I said judge kept saying it was fine he didn’t have a problem with it.  

Attorney and custodian both said last payment date was December (3 days before they received ownership) answered no to never calling Oc to find out what the payment was.  The means of the payment.  The two funny font statements custodian claimed were never mailed to customer.  I still can’t see on the paper where they claimed it was written in those statements.   The judge said he could see it and told me just to take his word for it.  Then ruled the BOS admissible.  

The judge did seems to understand our claims against the FDCPA and WCA violations.   The judge refused to let the attorney question it because he said attorney wasn’t allow to testify.   Essentially they placed over a dozen collection calls after the law suit was filed.   Luckily the attorney documented all the calls in discovery and couldn’t dispute them.   They tried to say it was them not there client that was responsible for the calls and the judge said nope your extension of your client.  

The that was pretty much it.   Then gave me 30 days to submit a final brief before he issues a decision.   He said to include case laws that supportive arguments and such.  And I was like hmm. You pretty much have said the law doesn’t matter.   I am working on my statement and will try my best.   I plan on using a lot of the case law that was discussed in the prior post.  Especially where it says the fact of BOS was admitted.   Having it admitted is one thing but the weight of it is a whole different situation.  

I was still pretty pissed about the BOS the custodian testified he hadn’t even looked at the documents until 6 months after the law suit was filed.   Due to Covid it took about 10 months from filing to case closed to allow arbitration.

The terms and conditions state the finance charges and they were different then what was on the bills.    The lawyer tried to say that default interest rates change and who knows when it changed in this case.  I was like like the terms do not state interest rate can change in default.   If the interest rate in the terms agreed to is different then they should have questioned it, is my position.  It’s like classic robo suit.   Filed and hope you win on a default judgement.   

So I think this closing statement is pretty important and if I lose I hope some of it will get negated for violations.  There is just the regular FAA appeals clause so I won’t even considered that.  Jams is not for the faint of heart and it’s not any easy out if you have to go all the way.  Especially when the judge says they don’t have to follow the laws right off the bat.  How do you even fight if the law doesn’t matter? I just replay everything in my head thinking I should have said this or said that.   Ugh! Glad I made it through though.  

Thank you for taking the time to read and answer all my post.  


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@Percyb Thank you for updating your case and sharing so many details. It is very hard as a pro se to go up against an attorney.

As I pointed out with the article on evidence in arbitration I linked, rules of evidence are relaxed in arbitration. The arbitrator has to follow the laws that apply, which I believe in your case are FAA, Utah, FDCPA, etc. 

Why don't you post your draft statement so that you can get the benefit of some of our members' input? 



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@Brotherskeeper I will.  And I definitely read everything.  I was going to refer to the Terms and Agreement that they accepted via jams.   It clearly state that the rules of law apply and when jams and those rules conflict.  The terms and agreement rule.  My draft is very rough right now but once I get it pulled together I will post it.  

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  • 4 weeks later...

I uploaded the brief last week after spending mega time on it and re writing and changing the format.  Yesterday got the arbitrators decision and I lost.  They won.  They asked for Attourney fees and Jams fees and that was denied.  No reason stated, just that it was denied.  The essence of the decision was that the custodian of records seemed trust worthy.  Even though he knew nothing about the OC, their record keeping practices or anything.  Never contacted the OC for any reason so essentially just them receiving the files is proof enough for JAMS.  Anyone thinking that a JDB won't spend over 20,000 to collect a little over 4000.. I am proof that they will.  I am so glad the stress of it is over even though I lost.  It has made me take a really close look at my finances and on top of that new law suit was filed by another JDB.  Just haven't been served yet.  I am meeting with attorneys this week and next to decide if I want to fight the new case or file BK.  The BK attorney I met with last night was a total slime ball.  Just gave me the creeps.  Good thing I contacted more than just him.  After saying they give free consult basically told me nothing and then wanted 500.00 to tell what bankruptcy I qualified for.  

Thank you to everyone on this board who read my post and contributed responses.  Your responses were kind and thoughtful and very appreciative to help me find my way through this.  

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Good you were not stuck with the $20K they spent, BK chapter 7 is a good choice in many cases an can get you back to good credit faster. But if you have to do chapter 13 due to income especially 5 years plan I would just try to get on payment plan for the 4K with condition they do not convert the award to a judgement unless you fail the payment plan. 

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