Being sued by Crown Asset Management (GA)

[Marauder-Leviathan_001]

1. Who is the named plaintiff in the suit? Crown Asset Management, LLC assignee of Comenity Capital Bank

2. What is the name of the law firm handling the suit? (should be listed at the top of the complaint.) Ragan & Ragan PC.

3. How much are you being sued for? $1500

4. Who is the original creditor? (if not the Plaintiff) Comenity Capital Bank

5. How do you know you are being sued? (You were served, right?) Received legal advertisements, have yet to be served as of 10/26/2021, but I do have access to online records

6. How were you served? (Mail, In person, Notice on door) N/A

7. Was the service legal as required by your state? N/A

Process Service Requirements by State - Summons Complaint

8. What was your correspondence (if any) with the people suing you before you think you were being sued? I believe they sent mail asking for payment, but threw them away as i thought there was not much I should be doing then.

9. What state and county do you live in? Gwinnett County, Georgia

10. When is the last time you paid on this account? (looking to establish if you are outside of the statute of limitations) May of 2020

11. When did you open the account (looking to establish what card agreement may be applicable)? Dont remember, best guess 2016… Ill look into it and update later; I am sure there is an arbitration clause in it, although it might not be necessary here.

12. What is the SOL on the debt? To find out: 6 years

Statute of Limitations on Debts

13. What is the status of your case? Suit served? Motions filed? You can find this by a) calling the court or looking it up online (many states have this information posted - when you find the online court site, search by case number or your name). Case is pending

14. Have you disputed the debt with the credit bureaus (both the original creditor and the collection agency?) No

15. Did you request debt validation before the suit was filed? Note: if you haven't sent a debt validation request before being sued, it likely won't help create FDCPA violations, but disputing after being sued could be useful to show the court that you dispute the debt ('account stated' vs. 'breach of contract'). No

16. How long do you have to respond to the suit? (This should be in your paperwork). If you don't respond to the lawsuit notice you will lose automatically. In 99% of the cases, they will require you to answer the summons, and each point they are claiming. We need to know what the "charges" are. Please post what they are claiming. Did you receive an interrogatory (questionnaire) regarding the lawsuit? 30 days

Here is an example of what the summons/complaint may look like: Sued by a Debt Collector - Learn How to Fight Debt Lawsuits

17. What evidence did they send with the summons? An affidavit? Statements from the OC? Contract? List anything else they attached as exhibits. The only evidence attached would be the statement before charge off (flawed, ask me why :)) and the bill of sale. Two pieces of evidence!

18.  How did you find out about this site? Google lol

18. Read these two links: Done !

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Marauder-Leviathan_001
Show in the title that I am in Georgia

[nobk4me]

Arbitration is your best bet here.

[Marauder-Leviathan_001]

1 hour ago, nobk4me said:

Arbitration is your best bet here.

I agree, arbitration has been proven time and time again to be the best bet, especially in cases where the Plaintiff has enough evidence to make any other mode of defense unfeasible. Yeah in this case I would also doubt that Crown Asset Management would want to pay $5000 to collect on $1500 lol

However

I did mention that I needed to make sure my original agreement would have had an arbitration clause (a decent one like Synchrony Bank's apparently), not to mention, I have read on one thread on the forum the that the same plaintiff attempted to strike the motion to compel arbitration for a user because of some paradoxical situation where the defendant would not have been aware of the clause without having knowledge of the agreement.

Thread: 

 

Sure the plaintiff's motion in that case was denied eventually, but that was in Ohio, and I do not want to take that risk here in Georgia.

 

This would probably torpedo my strategy of stating that the plaintiff has insufficient evidence to prove I owe this debt/is suing the wrong person. Now if my overall strategy is bad, let me know but first hear me out on my reasoning for doing this.

As of right now, Crown Asset Management has failed to include the credit holder's agreement, and as of right now only have the single statement before charge off as proof that I owe this debt.

Here is the kicker (if this matters, and one of the main reasons why I posted here). The mailing address on that particular Exhibit has absolutely nothing to do with me, or Crown Asset Management for that matter. Credit reports from all three major credit reporting bureaus support this conclusion. (Guess i should print these reports for the court hearing?)

I would assume this would open up more avenues for me to dismiss this case, correct?

Don't get me wrong, I am planning to have copies of the MTC Arb. At the potential court date in case Crown Asset Management actually produces the authentic, original credit holder agreement (none of that template, robo-signed crud, they probably do not even have it) or something else goes wrong that nullifies my previous strategy. but I'd rather use this as a last resort as by going directly to compelling Arb. I would be admitting in essence that I did have previous knowledge of the account in question.

Not trying to be rude here, I just want to know ways I can get this dismissed with prejudice in a scenario where arbitration is a last resort.

I am just afraid that Arbitration would leave this case open (dismissed without prejudice) as the judge never heard out the case.

Thread: 

 

(This post also happened in Georgia by the way, haha)

I guess I am asking you (all) about anything else I should be doing, such as filing a motion to dismiss with prejudice alongside my response, or waiting until the court date to hand in a motion to dismiss (I suppose this is protocol for my state (County?), correct me if I am wrong)

Would you like to see the Exhibits and Complaints? (the fact I have these before being served makes me happy) Could I have a potential case to Counter-Sue? I want to know things like these. Sorry If I sound overwhelming.

[BV80]

6 minutes ago, Marauder-Leviathan_001 said:

Don't get me wrong, I am planning to have copies of the MTC Arb. At the potential court date in case Crown Asset Management actually produces the authentic, original credit holder agreement (none of that template, robo-signed crud, they probably do not even have it) or something else goes wrong that nullifies my previous strategy. but I'd rather use this as a last resort as by going directly to compelling Arb. I would be admitting in essence that I did have previous knowledge of the account in question.

Unless your court requires it, they don’t have to offer the “authentic, original” agreement.  Rules of evidence allow for copies.  In fact, the agreement you need for arbitration is the one that was in effect the last time the account was current.  From what you wrote, that would be around July, 2020.  The reason is because agreements are amended from time to time.  The one in effect when you went into default would be the one that contains all amendments made by that time.

In regard to the possible “previous knowledge of the account”, agreements are available in the CFPB credit card agreement database.  Downloading an agreement from that database does not require previous knowledge of the account.  

[Marauder-Leviathan_001]

11 minutes ago, BV80 said:

Unless your court requires it, they don’t have to offer the “authentic, original” agreement.  Rules of evidence allow for copies.

Ah ok, I meant to ask if it was required for the Plaintiff to show a copy of the credit holder agreement with my signature, indicating that I indeed agreed to it and am therefore liable.

13 minutes ago, BV80 said:

In fact, the agreement you need for arbitration is the one that was in effect the last time the account was current.  From what you wrote, that would be around July, 2020.  The reason is because agreements are amended from time to time.  The one in effect when you went into default would be the one that contains all amendments made by that time.

To recap, this means that if the agreement from then (July 2020) contains an arbitration clause, I am able to invoke it? The CFPB website only has the 2021 version, can I use the clause from it, or does it not matter and I have the ability to invoke arbitration anyways.  (I don't have the July 2020 credit holder agreement with me.) Anyway, I find it a relief that finding the agreement on the database cannot be used against me.

 

Now to my query on ending this lawsuit before having to invoke arbitration, I mentioned that the mailing address on the statement before default is incorrect, does this make it possible to dismiss the suit on grounds that the evidence provided is faulty?

[BV80]

1 hour ago, Marauder-Leviathan_001 said:

Ah ok, I meant to ask if it was required for the Plaintiff to show a copy of the credit holder agreement with my signature, indicating that I indeed agreed to it and am therefore liable.

Cardholder agreements don’t require signatures. 
 

1 hour ago, Marauder-Leviathan_001 said:

To recap, this means that if the agreement from then (July 2020) contains an arbitration clause, I am able to invoke it? The CFPB website only has the 2021 version, can I use the clause from it, or does it not matter and I have the ability to invoke arbitration anyways.  (I don't have the July 2020 credit holder agreement with me.) Anyway, I find it a relief that finding the agreement on the database cannot be used against me.

 

Check the archives on the lower part of this page.  It contains 2020 agreements.  Yes, you could use it to invoke arbitration.  You need to use the agreement because you have the burden of showing there is a valid agreement to arbitrate.  You can’t show that without the agreement .

Credit card banks are required to post their agreements on the CFPB website.  See the link.

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/rules-policy/regulations/1026/58/

 

[Clydesmom]

2 hours ago, Marauder-Leviathan_001 said:

I guess I am asking you (all) about anything else I should be doing, such as filing a motion to dismiss with prejudice alongside my response, or waiting until the court date to hand in a motion to dismiss (I suppose this is protocol for my state (County?), correct me if I am wrong)

If this is in Magistrate Court you cannot file motions in advance.  Not allowed anywhere in GA in Magistrate Court.  You have ZERO chance of a motion to dismiss being granted unless there is identity theft, deceased defendant, wrong state/court, or some other legal reason.

2 hours ago, Marauder-Leviathan_001 said:

Would you like to see the Exhibits and Complaints? (the fact I have these before being served makes me happy) Could I have a potential case to Counter-Sue?

Counter sue for what?  You cannot just throw anything at the case and hope it sticks.  The more frivolous claims you make the weaker your case gets.

2 hours ago, Marauder-Leviathan_001 said:

As of right now, Crown Asset Management has failed to include the credit holder's agreement, and as of right now only have the single statement before charge off as proof that I owe this debt.

Magistrate Court does not require they provide any evidence when the case is filed.  It also does not allow discovery.  Magistrate Court is trial by ambush.  The good news is Gwinnett is one of the 3 biggest counties and the court is staffed by actual Judges not the good ole boy fishing/golf buddies network.  While they will require solid evidence chances are good the law firm has what they need.  GA relaxed their business records laws about a decade ago and now the records along with an affidavit and they are in.  You need to watch for a letter giving you the opportunity to come to their office and examine any documents they intend to use.  If you do not avail yourself of this opportunity you forfeit your right to challenge their evidence as hearsay at the trial under GA business records laws.

2 hours ago, Marauder-Leviathan_001 said:

Yeah in this case I would also doubt that Crown Asset Management would want to pay $5000 to collect on $1500 lol

Don't bank on that.  PRA has recently followed several cases all the way to the end.  While arbitration still remains a good option it is not the silver bullet it used to be.

2 hours ago, Marauder-Leviathan_001 said:

The mailing address on that particular Exhibit has absolutely nothing to do with me, or Crown Asset Management for that matter.

Google the address.  If it is for the law firm then that address may be on the exhibit because it auto-populated for mailing to the firm when requested from the OC.

You need to have 3 motions for arbitration ready for the day of the hearing.  Once you are served you will be notified of the trial date which will be within 30 days most likely from the time you answer.  Your biggest arbitration hurdle is that this law firm has seen this tactic before and will be ready for it and has successfully fought it.  You need to be ready with your counter arguments as to why the court should grant the MTC.  Gwinnett Judges have granted them.  You could get lucky and the lawyer simply agrees with you in the hallway consult and tells the Judge they will arbitrate.  If that happens DO NOT split hairs on who should file.  YOU initiate the case and then wait patiently for them to eventually offer a mutual walkaway when the costs escalate.  You do not want to sit around not filing and then have them argue you weren't serious and have the Judge agree and hear the trial.

[Marauder-Leviathan_001]

Based on the answers I have received, I realize now that my Initial strategy would not have worked at all. I am very thankful to have you all tell a newbie the straightforward facts that a lawyer would have probably charged $750 for.

I didn't want to rely solely on arbitration because of the fact that the plaintiff could potentially just knock it away and I would possibly not have any backup plan. Unfortunately, after realizing the mailing address relates to a debt settlement law firm I had cut ties with in the past, along with receiving the harsh reality on how lax Georgia's records laws are, I realize that Arbitration may be my only choice in having a chance of getting this matter resolved satisfactorily, albeit in a delayed period of time.

The only other way would be to settle the matter before the 30 day response deadline and get a voluntary dismissal with prejudice, but I assume that is not as favorable as compelling arbitration right?

In all cases, I am all ears to what I need to do next. It is a really good thing I am able to get all of this information from you all before being served. I will read up more about what I need for arbitration and ask further questions tomorrow. Good night and thank you all for giving it to me straight!

[BackFromTheDebt]

Well, unless you have a real defense, arbitration may be your ONLY option 

[nobk4me]

You mentioned counter-suing . . . meaning counterclaims, I presume?  If you want to use the arbitration strategy, you don't want to do that in court.  The reason is, the further you go in litigation, the more risk you have of waiving arb rights. And filing a counterclaim is definitely one of the things that can waive arb rights.

[Marauder-Leviathan_001]

16 hours ago, nobk4me said:

You mentioned counter-suing . . . meaning counterclaims, I presume?  If you want to use the arbitration strategy, you don't want to do that in court.  The reason is, the further you go in litigation, the more risk you have of waiving arb rights. And filing a counterclaim is definitely one of the things that can waive arb rights.

This was when I though I had found discrepancies in their evidence, and thought I also had them for a "lack of evidence." I don't have that now and even if I did I don't want to risk losing Arbitration rights. I am just going to go for compelling arbitration right off the bat.

Now the question becomes how to word my answer to reflect that.

 

The complaint is a "Suit on Contract" and contains the following statements

COMES NOW Plaintiff and files this action against Defendant and states:

1. Defendant is a resident of GWINNETT County, State of Georgia, and is subject to the jurisdiction of this Court.
2. Defendant resides and may be served at [REDACTED ADDRESS]
3. Defendant entered into a credit card agreement with the original creditor as indicated by the Chain of Title and./or the terms and conditions of the credit card agreement.
4. This credit card account is identified as account number [REDACTED]
5. Defendant received and used the credit card at issue in this action.
6. Defendant breached the credit card agreement by failing to pay as agreed and left an outstanding balance of $1,400.00
7. Plaintiff purchased the credit card account and received written assignment of the debt at issue in this action.
8. Despite demand by Plaintiff, Defendant has failed to pay the amount due on the credit card account.
9. Defendant is liable to Plaintiff for the sum of $1,400..

WHEREFORE, Plaintiff demands judgment against Defendant in the sum of $ 1,400.00 and court costs of $l00.00

This day of September 20,2021

 

My responses to these statements are as follows, and are currently incomplete because I do not know what to say in order to state that I am going for arbitration besides the affirmative defense.

1. Defendant ADMITS they are a resident of Gwinnett County (Do I deny the court jurisdiction thing?)
2. Defendant ADMITS they do reside at [Address]
3. Defendant DENIES (Wait, do I have to admit this in order to compel arbitration?)
4. Defendant DENIES (Do I also have to admit this to compel arbitration?)
5. Defendant DENIES (Do I also have to admit this to compel arbitration?)
6. Defendant DENIES (Do I also have to admit this to compel arbitration?)
7. ??? (Their bill of sale looks legit, and I would need it to connect the fact that JDB must abide by arbitration)
8. Defendant DENIES (No clear demand specified before making this court appearance)
9. Defendant DENIES

Affirmative Defenses:

Lack of Subject Matter Jurisdiction – The underlying contract contains a private arbitration clause which Defendant has elected to exercise. Therefore, This Court does not have jurisdiction to hear this matter.
 

I would need to include 3 copies of the entire cardholder agreement from the date I last paid on the card (May-June 2020) as well as three copies of a notarized affidavit certifying that this is the original cardholder agreement, that the JDB would be bound to, that I am pulling the arbitration clause from right?

I would greatly appreciate pointers as how to respond to these claims without shooting myself in the foot, although if Gwinnett does a blanket denial thing I guess it does not matter; not sure thought, I didn't see anything regarding that on the magistrate court website.

[BV80]

24 minutes ago, Marauder-Leviathan_001 said:

??? (Their bill of sale looks legit, and I would need it to connect the fact that JDB must abide by arbitration)

The JDB claims to own the account.  What does the arbitration provision state about “assignees”, “transfer”, etc?

In short, they can’t allege to own the account, then claim the agreement doesn’t apply to them.

[Marauder-Leviathan_001]

11 minutes ago, BV80 said:

What does the arbitration provision state about “assignees”, “transfer”, etc?

There is a portion of the agreement before the arbitration provision (Other information) that includes this on assignment, don't think this is relevant.

"We may assign any or all of our rights and obligations under this Agreement to a third party. You may not
assign any of your rights or obligations under this Agreement."

Then we have this provision in the arbitration section, which is completely relevant.

 

"the issuer of your Card named on the Summary and its successors and/or assigns"

This can refer to the JDB correct?

[Clydesmom]

52 minutes ago, Marauder-Leviathan_001 said:

Now the question becomes how to word my answer to reflect that

I would greatly appreciate pointers as how to respond to these claims without shooting myself in the foot

NO NO NO NO and NO!

You do not need to type up a formal answer.  When you are ready to answer simply go to the clerk's office.  They have pre-printed forms.  You check off denial, sign/date and hand it to the clerk.  They stamp it and give you a copy back.  I think it is the pink copy might be yellow now.  Then you go home.  Within 14 days you will receive a letter from the court with your trial date.  That is when you show up with the MTC arb.

PLEASE start reading threads from others in GA especially Gwinnett on what they did.  GA Magistrate Court is VERY different in many aspects and you cannot blanket apply what you read on threads from other states.

 

[BV80]

33 minutes ago, Marauder-Leviathan_001 said:

the issuer of your Card named on the Summary and its successors and/or assigns"

This can refer to the JDB correct?

Doesn’t the JDB claim to be the successor or assignee?

[Marauder-Leviathan_001]

11 minutes ago, BV80 said:

Doesn’t the JDB claim to be the successor or assignee?

Yeah, even says in the Plaintiff's title "Crown Asset Management, LLC assignee of Comenity Capital Bank"

 

42 minutes ago, Clydesmom said:

PLEASE start reading threads from others in GA especially Gwinnett on what they did.  GA Magistrate Court is VERY different in many aspects and you cannot blanket apply what you read on threads from other states.

Will do, If any questions arise from there I will refer back here.

Thanks for telling me the answer process, I could not find it online except what I assume to be an online version, but I will go to the clerk once I am served and file it there just to be safe.

[JohnJohn]

You should probably consult with an attorney.  Most will provide a consultation for free and then will tell you how much they would charge you.  I believe @Clydesmom has one law firm in Georgia that she has recommended before.  I think for less than $500 an attorney would be able to take care of this for you. (The consumer attorneys that I have talked to in Georgia work mainly off of a flat fee)

 

Some of the things you planned to respond with are scary.  @Clydesmom pointed out that you don't have to provide details in Georgia Magistrate court(to answer a summons), however, you don't want the JDB to have any evidence from you that you make any admissions.

6 hours ago, Marauder-Leviathan_001 said:

??? (Their bill of sale looks legit, and I would need it to connect the fact that JDB must abide by arbitration)

This is a hard no-no.  NEVER admit that the JDB's documents are legitimate.  I received a bill of sale and list of accounts that have different dates.(As in a bill of sale for list of accounts dated Jan 1 along with a list of accounts dated Feb 12th.  Those bills of sale usually include statements about a contract that governs the sale, but they never include that contract and I haven't heard of a company that will release the contract. 

If you had a credit card, they can likely prove that you had the card, that you used the card, and that you stopped paying on the card.  Your denials of those items likely won't hold up because they will be able to provide proof.  Their documentation about their ownership of the debt is usually another matter.  If you ADMIT that they now own the debt, they will have everything that they need.

 

An attorney isn't going to guide you all the way thru acting pro-se in a free consultation, but they will let you know where you stand and what your chances are of a successful defense.  As nervous and confused as you appear to be, if you have $300-500 to pay an attorney it will most likely be completely taken care of and will reduce your stress level greatly.

[Marauder-Leviathan_001]

On 10/29/2021 at 2:31 PM, JohnJohn said:

You should probably consult with an attorney.  Most will provide a consultation for free and then will tell you how much they would charge you.  I believe @Clydesmom has one law firm in Georgia that she has recommended before.  I think for less than $500 an attorney would be able to take care of this for you. (The consumer attorneys that I have talked to in Georgia work mainly off of a flat fee)

I would greatly appreciate the acquisition of contact details of these consumer attorneys, although the risk always runs that I will be left on the hook for the full amount if arbitration does not go well, or if the attorney does not know the intricacies of arbitration either (500 + 1500 = worse off possibility)

 

For everyone else, I am curious as to the ways that JDB's have attempted to throw out MTC arbitration in Gwinnett Magistrate Court, if anyone can compile some examples for me that would be greatly appreciated.

On 10/29/2021 at 9:31 AM, Clydesmom said:

Within 14 days you will receive a letter from the court with your trial date.  That is when you show up with the MTC arb.

I also need to bring copies of the credit holder agreement for each MTC right? also a single notarized affidavit stating the validity of the cardholder agreements?

 

What I have gathered is that if this MTC thing does not work, I am screwed.

[Clydesmom]

2 hours ago, Marauder-Leviathan_001 said:

I would greatly appreciate the acquisition of contact details of these consumer attorneys, although the risk always runs that I will be left on the hook for the full amount if arbitration does not go well, or if the attorney does not know the intricacies of arbitration either (500 + 1500 = worse off possibility)

The goal of a MTC is not to actually arbitrate.  It is to make the path to collecting so cumbersome and expensive that they choose to drop the entire case instead.

A bad case in court is a bad case in arbitration.  MOST attorneys are not familiar with arbitration.  Should you be in a situation where you had to arbitrate you would have to search diligently to find a firm that could take the case.

You can try Skaar and Feagle or simply use the NACA website to find Consumer Attorneys in Gwinnett and/or Fulton County.  DO NOT email or use those "contact us" buttons.  They are not monitored.  You need to call and speak to a live person.

2 hours ago, Marauder-Leviathan_001 said:

For everyone else, I am curious as to the ways that JDB's have attempted to throw out MTC arbitration in Gwinnett Magistrate Court, if anyone can compile some examples for me that would be greatly appreciated.

Objection/defense to the motion is no different than many other motions:  not contractually obligated, too expensive, waived right to arbitrate etc.  It is up to you to have counter arguments and case law from GEORGIA to support your position.

2 hours ago, Marauder-Leviathan_001 said:

I also need to bring copies of the credit holder agreement for each MTC right? also a single notarized affidavit stating the validity of the cardholder agreements?

While you certainly CAN do this I have not heard of the Gwinnett Magistrates asking for this.  Should the Plaintiff object to the card agreement presented I would simply state then please produce the agreement IN FULL you state is associated with the account as filed in your complaint.  

[JohnJohn]

19 hours ago, Marauder-Leviathan_001 said:

I would greatly appreciate the acquisition of contact details of these consumer attorneys, although the risk always runs that I will be left on the hook for the full amount if arbitration does not go well, or if the attorney does not know the intricacies of arbitration either (500 + 1500 = worse off possibility)

@Clydesmomprovided the name of the firm that she has mentioned before.  If you do talk to an attorney, don't automatically hire them.  Most will provide a free consultation .  They will listen to what you have to say about your case.  Will probably ask a few questions.  Then they will tell you what their recent experience with that creditor/law firm has been.  They will tell you how much they would charge to take your case.

 

A law firm may or may not pursue a motion to compel arbitration.  They might suggest FDCPA counter-complaints to push for a mutual dismissal.  They might have good recent history with this law firm on small settlements.

 

I am not a lawyer, and am not associated with any lawyer.  My suggestion to talk to a law firm was more based on my interpretation that you are nervous and confused about the process.  It is possible that you could pay an attorney $500 and still have to pay the creditor $1,500.  It is possible that you could argue for arbitration in court, lose and immediately after that have a $1,500 judgement entered against you.  If you want to use the MTC, that is up to you and it can be effective.  I would only suggest that if you are not comfortable with your knowledge of the CC agreement, the MTC process, and the strength/weakness of the JDB's evidence that you at least consult with an attorney.  If you do continue pro se, study and be certain of the process and the evidence before saying anything or submitting anything in writing to the creditor or the court.

[Elmobius]

I'm a bit late to the party, but since you tagged my thread in here, I thought I'd add: it may not hurt to get an affidavit notarized claiming your copy of the agreement is a true and accurate copy of the governing contract just in case they try to claim a different contract is. That is exactly what happened in my case and was enough to scare their lawyer into agreeing to arb (think I was bluffing) before eventually ditching case before seeing a judge (a pre-trial conference is required before a judge will hear a case where I am).