Law Firm Attempting to Collect 14-Year Old Debt

[hckypa0101]

Hi all,  I am glad to find this site.  I hope I can find some advice here on a manner that just arose for me.  I am in Pennsylvania by the way.  The other day, my wife called me to notify that the two joint banking accounts that we have together at her bank had a $0.00 balance.  I immediately called the bank and they gave me contact information to a law firm.  I call law firm and they state that they served the bank to place a levy on the joint accounts and they took all funds in both accounts.  Thankfully, it wasn't a TON of money, but that is beside the point.  The law firm stated that they are collecting a debt from 2008 for a Metris bank.  I told them I had no idea what bank that is and I am completely unaware of this so called debt they are claiming.  Law firm indicated that it was for a credit card opened in 2005, of which at that time I was just graduating high school and going away to college.  I never had a credit card until after I graduated college by the way.  Law firm also stated that on October 3, 2008, a Sheriff served me at my home address of which was impossible because I was away at college.  They also stated I skipped court in November 2008.  I also asked, "Why have I not been contacted about this over the last 14 years?" and their response was "we sent letters to the address you were at in 2008.  I told them my home address changed in 2011 and yes, I completed a change of address, updated the DMV, etc.  hence why all my "other" mail successfully went to where I moved to.  I was told to file a complaint with the Attorney General office as well as the CFPB, which I did.  Now I am just sitting here with both joint accounts essentially frozen, money taken out of those accounts, and not knowing what the heck is going on.  My questions are as follows:

1.  Is what this law firm is doing 100% legal?

2. Doesn't the law firm have a civil duty to contact me regarding this at some point over the 14 years? They never called, e-mailed, or even sent letters to the right address.

3. I was never served anything in October of 2008.  

4. Why has this never showed up on my credit report? I bought a house a few years ago, have a car, have good finances, etc.

5. If I was "served" in 2008 and skipped court, shouldn't I see a court Docket on file with the PA judicial system?  No such docket/documents exist when I look up my name. 

 

All in all, I am very confused, frustrated, and eager to get this resolved ASAP.  I do not know if this is a case of identity theft or if this is a scam or what.  Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.  Thank you!!!!

 

Oh and P.S., Google Reviews of the law firm have it as a 1-star and the reviews people have left are along the lines of "scam artists, rude, trying to intimidate, unethical, etc."

Edited February 11, 2022 by hckypa0101
Title Change

[BV80]

@hckypa0101

Check the county court in your current county and the court in the county where you used to reside to see if a judgment was ever rendered against you.

[WhoCares1000]

You need to find the case which may not be online. You will probably have to go to the courthouse where the case was filed which would be in whatever county you resided at in 2008. If you were at college, then odds are your parents house was your home address. It might be that your father was served and he never told you. You can find out who was served in the case file. You can also find out if the judgement was ever renewed.

When looking through the case file, make sure that service was done in accordance to the rules of civil procedure for Pennsylvania. Also, the Statute of limitations for judgements is 5 years but they can be revived indefinitely. Verify that the law firm did indeed revive the judgement properly.

[Bulldoger]

Since you bought a house I would also check with your land  records clerk and see if you have a lien on your house. Penn. judgments also act as a lien against real property for up to 20 years or longer if properly revived.

[HueyPilot]

Some nefarious entity or debt buyer must have contracted with this law firm to do their legal process. Must have scanned old unpaid judgements. If its identity theft it may have came thru medical records? It sounds like immediately after you locate your case file and records at the Courthouse you should consider filing a complaint with the local Police or Sheriffs office for identity theft. You then have a police report that will be useful in your defense. There must be a judgement or this firm would not be able to freeze your funds or withdraw from the bank. All being accurate you have one heck of a case with the help of a real consumer lawyer and FRCA/FDCPA.  I would also file a complaint with the local bar association. 

[Clydesmom]

Something that has not been mentioned is possible identity theft.  Is there ANY chance your parents or a sibling may have opened an account back then using your information and then defaulted?  It could explain why you had no knowledge and it isn't unheard of for parents to do this (though it is deplorable and illegal) and when sued not tell the child whose identity they used.  It could explain why if they served you at your parents home while away at college they never told you.  They didn't forget they hoped you never found out.  If it is identity theft you could still defeat this that way by taking the proper action.  First you need to know how everything went down on the case to know where to start.

[nobk4me]

3 hours ago, Clydesmom said:

Something that has not been mentioned is possible identity theft.  Is there ANY chance your parents or a sibling may have opened an account back then using your information and then defaulted?  It could explain why you had no knowledge and it isn't unheard of for parents to do this (though it is deplorable and illegal) and when sued not tell the child whose identity they used.  It could explain why if they served you at your parents home while away at college they never told you.  They didn't forget they hoped you never found out.  If it is identity theft you could still defeat this that way by taking the proper action.  First you need to know how everything went down on the case to know where to start.

True . . . but a lot of people may not want to accuse a family member of a crime.

[Clydesmom]

5 minutes ago, nobk4me said:

True . . . but a lot of people may not want to accuse a family member of a crime.

The person stealing the identity banks on that literally and figuratively.  

In this case the parents may already be deceased or at least the one who did it.  If the party who did it is still alive they might be guilted in to settling this and getting it off the OP's credit in exchange for not reporting it to law enforcement.  The point is to look in to whether identity theft was the basis for the existence of the account.  If it was it could provide more avenues of defense against this judgment.

[hckypa0101]

Thank you all a ton for your advice and info!  Very helpful.  I am in the process of acquiring the case file from my county's courthouse.  Once I receive that, I can review that to find further information.  

Thanks again for all your help!  I am sure I will have more questions once I acquire the case file. 

[hckypa0101]

I have the case file.  Was able to access it online.  Would revival of judgement be seen in the case file?  As I am looking at the case file, with all the listed dates and actions, etc., there is a gap where there is nothing from 2011 to 2022.  Nothing at all.  Should I see a revival of judgement here if there was one?  Also, there is nothing that says they made attempt(s) to contact me?  I did briefly talk to a credit lawyer and according to him, he said "that's too long." But I also wanted to get the advice of some others on here?

 

Thanks!

[BV80]

46 minutes ago, hckypa0101 said:

I have the case file.  Was able to access it online.  Would revival of judgement be seen in the case file?  As I am looking at the case file, with all the listed dates and actions, etc., there is a gap where there is nothing from 2011 to 2022.  Nothing at all.  Should I see a revival of judgement here if there was one?  Also, there is nothing that says they made attempt(s) to contact me?  I did briefly talk to a credit lawyer and according to him, he said "that's too long." But I also wanted to get the advice of some others on here?

 

Thanks!

Read your court rules of civil procedure and state laws regarding judgments and revival of judgments.  The law will state how long a judgment lasts, if it can be revived, and the process required to revive it.  Or, you could contact a PA consumer and ask.  Some attorneys are kind enough to answer a couple of questions over the phone.  

[hckypa0101]

1 minute ago, BV80 said:

Read your court rules of civil procedure and state laws regarding judgments and revival of judgments.  The law will state how long a judgment lasts, if it can be revived, and the process required to revive it.  Or, you could contact a PA consumer and ask.  Some attorneys are kind enough to answer a couple of questions over the phone.  

Thanks.  I found out the SOL for reviving judgements in PA is 5 years.  I read the court rules of civil procedures, but am not the best at interpreting the legal terminology.  

[BV80]

16 minutes ago, hckypa0101 said:

Thanks.  I found out the SOL for reviving judgements in PA is 5 years.  I read the court rules of civil procedures, but am not the best at interpreting the legal terminology.  

If the rules include the procedure for reviving a judgment, copy and paste them here.  We’ll see if we can help with interpretation.  

[hckypa0101]

Thanks.  Here is what I am looking at (I think this is correct?) http://www.pacodeandbulletin.gov/Display/pacode?file=/secure/pacode/data/231/chapter3000/subchapBtoc.html&d=reduce

 

"

Rule 3027. Writ of Revival. Entry. Lien.

 (a)  Upon issuance of the writ of revival or the filing of an agreement to revive, the prothonotary shall enter it in the judgment index against each defendant and terre tenant named therein.

   Official Note

   Adopted October 1, 1964, effective April 1, 1965.

 (b)  The writ or agreement, when entered in the judgment index shall

   (1) continue the lien upon real property located in the county which is subject to the lien of the judgment which is sought to be revived,

   (2) create a lien upon all other real property located in the county, title to which at the time of entry in the judgment index is recorded in the name of the defendant, and

   Official Note

   The lien attaches whether or not the real property was owned by the defendant at the time the original judgment was entered in the judgment index or the lien of the judgment was previously revived and whether or not the lien of the judgment had been lost as to the property. The priority of the lien is preserved only if the praecipe or the agreement is filed within the five-year period prescribed by these rules.

   (3) create a lien upon all other real property located in the county, title to which at the time of entry in the judgment index is recorded in the name of a terre-tenant, and which was subject to the lien of the judgment sought to be revived but the lien lapsed prior to the entry of the writ or agreement in the judgment index.

 (c)  The lien of a writ of revival or of an agreement to revive shall continue for a period of five years from the date on which the writ or agreement was entered in the judgment index.

 

Source

 

   The provisions of this Rule 3027 adopted October 1, 1964, effective April 1, 1965; amended June 15, 1994, effective July 1, 1994, 24 Pa.B. 3215; amended December 19, 2003, effective July 1, 2004, 34 Pa.B. 22. Immediately preceding text appears at serial pages (213387) to (213388)."

[BV80]

32 minutes ago, hckypa0101 said:

Thanks.  Here is what I am looking at (I think this is correct?) http://www.pacodeandbulletin.gov/Display/pacode?file=/secure/pacode/data/231/chapter3000/subchapBtoc.html&d=reduce

 

"

Rule 3027. Writ of Revival. Entry. Lien.

 (a)  Upon issuance of the writ of revival or the filing of an agreement to revive, the prothonotary shall enter it in the judgment index against each defendant and terre tenant named therein.

   Official Note

   Adopted October 1, 1964, effective April 1, 1965.

 (b)  The writ or agreement, when entered in the judgment index shall

   (1) continue the lien upon real property located in the county which is subject to the lien of the judgment which is sought to be revived,

   (2) create a lien upon all other real property located in the county, title to which at the time of entry in the judgment index is recorded in the name of the defendant, and

   Official Note

   The lien attaches whether or not the real property was owned by the defendant at the time the original judgment was entered in the judgment index or the lien of the judgment was previously revived and whether or not the lien of the judgment had been lost as to the property. The priority of the lien is preserved only if the praecipe or the agreement is filed within the five-year period prescribed by these rules.

   (3) create a lien upon all other real property located in the county, title to which at the time of entry in the judgment index is recorded in the name of a terre-tenant, and which was subject to the lien of the judgment sought to be revived but the lien lapsed prior to the entry of the writ or agreement in the judgment index.

 (c)  The lien of a writ of revival or of an agreement to revive shall continue for a period of five years from the date on which the writ or agreement was entered in the judgment index.

 

Source

 

   The provisions of this Rule 3027 adopted October 1, 1964, effective April 1, 1965; amended June 15, 1994, effective July 1, 1994, 24 Pa.B. 3215; amended December 19, 2003, effective July 1, 2004, 34 Pa.B. 22. Immediately preceding text appears at serial pages (213387) to (213388)."

That seems to indicate that a writ of revival must be filed with the court (judgment index).  I would go to the courthouse to look in the file.  I might also speak to the clerk of court about it.

If there is no evidence of a revival, I would contact a consumer attorney.  There could be possible violations of state laws, as well as, the FDCPA.

 

[hckypa0101]

Thanks so much BV80!!  All of this info. is a huge help. 

[HueyPilot]

Here is a link to one of Pennsylvanias debt collection attorneys page explaining the Bank Levy and Garnishment process in your State. 

https://jbmartinlaw.com/can-a-pa-collections-attorney-garnish-bank-accounts-to-collect-a-debt/

Somewhere there must have been a Writ of Execuition freezing your account and a Court order allowing for garnishment. Since garnishment of wages are not allowed in Pennsylvania they went for wages deposited in your bank account following some kind of a sweep or investigation of discovery locating your bank account. 

Get all your liquid assets deposited in another name (Such as friend or family) or your business account until this is resolved. The garnishment is not over and you will have to work on cash and money orders until this is resolved. ("Going Dark") It's been said a couple times in this post "Go to the Court and have the clerk make a copy of the Court records or transcripts" so you know what you defending against. You appear to have standing for rebuttal and reinstatement but you need all the facts. With all the litigation going on with FDCPA and its virtual shut down by the injury in fact/standing issue your attorney will have to work on local laws in your defense/recovery.

 

 

[BV80]

2 hours ago, HueyPilot said:

Here is a link to one of Pennsylvanias debt collection attorneys page explaining the Bank Levy and Garnishment process in your State. 

https://jbmartinlaw.com/can-a-pa-collections-attorney-garnish-bank-accounts-to-collect-a-debt/

Somewhere there must have been a Writ of Execuition freezing your account and a Court order allowing for garnishment. Since garnishment of wages are not allowed in Pennsylvania they went for wages deposited in your bank account following some kind of a sweep or investigation of discovery locating your bank account. 

Get all your liquid assets deposited in another name (Such as friend or family) or your business account until this is resolved. The garnishment is not over and you will have to work on cash and money orders until this is resolved. ("Going Dark") It's been said a couple times in this post "Go to the Court and have the clerk make a copy of the Court records or transcripts" so you know what you defending against. You appear to have standing for rebuttal and reinstatement but you need all the facts. With all the litigation going on with FDCPA and its virtual shut down by the injury in fact/standing issue your attorney will have to work on local laws in your defense/recovery.

 

 

It looks like a judgment was rendered more than 5 years ago.  If a revival to renew the judgment was filed, the OP doesn’t see it on the online court records.  

[HueyPilot]

Further illustrates how low these JDB's will stoop to collect funds. 

Having read the survival of judgement lien link provided, there had to be some kind of recent action reviving the judgement and allowing the fund withdrawell. Banks don't allow these transactions without notification and some kind of Court order especially if the previous revival/judgement has tolled. This is a huge red flag. 

Have we determined how much the original judgement was for and has it been satisfied with this fund withdrawell. Are we looking at further awards of interest or other usuary charges. Will your bank provide you copies of the paperwork authorizing these transactions. Are we back to the identity theft and police report issue.

Edited February 19, 2022 by HueyPilot
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