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Is it easy to beat Amex in court or arbitration?


Fightamex
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It is not easy to beat Amex in court nor in arbitration.  They ONLY ways to beat Amex are if the debt is past the statute of limitations or if you are a victim of identity theft and never had the account they are suing you for.  Amex will have all of the proof they need to win.  If you push it to court or arbitration, Amex will spend more money on a lawsuit than the total amount you owe them if it takes that to get to a resolution.

If you had an account with Amex, and it is still within the SOL, you will be much better off trying to reach a settlement with them than trying to fight it in court or arbitration.

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3 hours ago, Fightamex said:

I meant last 4 statements before charge off , those 4 statements never came to you and went to a different address ? Does not Amex prove how they got that address 

Is the account number on those 4 statements the same as the account number on your other statements?  Do the statements show charges and/or payments that you made?  I’m just wondering if somehow there was a mixup with another consumer.

Did you move to another address before those statements were sent?  Or have you been living at the same address all along?

Has AmEx provided an affidavit?  If so, can you copy it for us with all identifying information redacted?  That would include redacting the names of the affiant and notary.  All we really need is the language in the body of the affidavit (minus your name, account number, balance, anything that would identify you).  Most attorneys use the same standard affidavits for every collection case with only the identifying info changed.  So there would be little to no chance you could be identified by anyone reading this site simply from standard affidavit language.

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1 hour ago, Jacknyc said:

@BV80  might know. But I believe if they did not send statements to your address, it invalidates final balance and there is no win on account stated / breach of contract.

I don’t believe a failure to send the last 4 statements to the correct address would affect a breach of contract claim.  All a plaintiff has to do to prove a contract in a credit card claim is to show that the card was used by the consumer.  Credit card agreements contain a “use and acceptance” clause.  It basically states that use of the card indicates the consumer’s acceptance of the terms in the agreement.  By using the card, you’ve accepted the terms of the agreement and have created a contract.

However, an account stated claim could be a different issue.  That requires a “meeting of the minds” as to the balance owed.   Courts have ruled that a consumer’s actions can determine if he agreed with the balance.  BUT, if you didn’t get the statements and made no payments because you didn’t get statements, that might be an argument.

If there’s an affidavit, I want to see what is said about the statements and if the affiant (signer) claims to have reviewed them.  

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3 hours ago, BV80 said:

Is the account number on those 4 statements the same as the account number on your other statements?  Do the statements show charges and/or payments that you made?  I’m just wondering if somehow there was a mixup with another consumer.

Did you move to another address before those statements were sent?  Or have you been living at the same address all along?

Has AmEx provided an affidavit?  If so, can you copy it for us with all identifying information redacted?  That would include redacting the names of the affiant and notary.  All we really need is the language in the body of the affidavit (minus your name, account number, balance, anything that would identify you).  Most attorneys use the same standard affidavits for every collection case with only the identifying info changed.  So there would be little to no chance you could be identified by anyone reading this site simply from standard affidavit language.

 

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3 hours ago, BV80 said:

I don’t believe a failure to send the last 4 statements to the correct address would affect a breach of contract claim.  All a plaintiff has to do to prove a contract in a credit card claim is to show that the card was used by the consumer.  Credit card agreements contain a “use and acceptance” clause.  It basically states that use of the card indicates the consumer’s acceptance of the terms in the agreement.  By using the card, you’ve accepted the terms of the agreement and have created a contract.

However, an account stated claim could be a different issue.  That requires a “meeting of the minds” as to the balance owed.   Courts have ruled that a consumer’s actions can determine if he agreed with the balance.  BUT, if you didn’t get the statements and made no payments because you didn’t get statements, that might be an argument.

If there’s an affidavit, I want to see what is said about the statements and if the affiant (signer) claims to have reviewed them.  

Even in the breach of contract how would you decide how much he has to pay  if @Fightamex did not get his last 4 statements, i believe he has argument that he did not agree to final balance since he did not get statements ?

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2 hours ago, Jacknyc said:

Even in the breach of contract how would you decide how much he has to pay  if @Fightamex did not get his last 4 statements, i believe he has argument that he did not agree to final balance since he did not get statements ?

The breach of contract claim itself is dependent on the existence of a contract.  In this case, if the judge is satisfied a contract existed between the parties and if more statements were provided, he might subtract whatever fees and interest were shown on the last four statements from the final balance the creditor is claiming.

I don’t know exactly what the judge would do, but I’ve seen rulings where judges awarded only the amount a creditor could prove.  For instance, if a creditor could not prove a certain interest rate or added fees, those were subtracted from the amounts the creditor demanded in the complaint.  

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3 hours ago, Fightamex said:

 

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Was that included on the complaint?  That was all it contained?

The affidavit I was hoping had been provided is a business records affidavit.  In order for business records such as credit card statements to be admissible evidence, the plaintiff must provide an affidavit stating that records were made in the regular course of business, etc.  You need to look in the IL Rules of Evidence 803(6).   It’s purpose is to show that the records are what the plaintiff claims they are.

What I was hoping from an affidavit is that the affiant would state she reviewed the the records and that they were sent to you.  If they provide an affidavit where she claims to have reviewed the records, you could argue that if she really  reviewed them, she would have seen the wrong address on the last 4 statements.  If she says they were sent to you, you can prove that was impossible.

If you can cast doubt on the affiant’s testimony in a business records affidavit, it might be possible for the statements to be declared inadmissible as evidence.  No records, no case.  But we have to see if they submit another affidavit and what it says.  
 

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11 hours ago, Fightamex said:

What if you never received Amex credit card statements they went to different address that you never gave them ? 

Just wondering don't know how it will effect case but did you have online access during the last 4 statements? 

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1 hour ago, BV80 said:

 

Was that included on the complaint?  That was all it contained?

The affidavit I was hoping had been provided is a business records affidavit.  In order for business records such as credit card statements to be admissible evidence, the plaintiff must provide an affidavit stating that records were made in the regular course of business, etc.  You need to look in the IL Rules of Evidence 803(6).   It’s purpose is to show that the records are what the plaintiff claims they are.

What I was hoping from an affidavit is that the affiant would state she reviewed the the records and that they were sent to you.  If they provide an affidavit where she claims to have reviewed the records, you could argue that if she really  reviewed them, she would have seen the wrong address on the last 4 statements.  If she says they were sent to you, you can prove that was impossible.

If you can cast doubt on the affiant’s testimony in a business records affidavit, it might be possible for the statements to be declared inadmissible as evidence.  No records, no case.  But we have to see if they submit another affidavit and what it says.  
 

Thanks Man that’s very helpful info. The complaint alleges charge account(ca) or line of credit(lc) instead of credit card . Looked up google, ca or oc have different meaning from cc. Does nt that give me right to dismiss the case?

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Did you write something I don't see anything but my posted question. 

I posted it because when I had AMEX I did everything online.  So if they had online access it can be argued that they received the statements even if they never went online to view them same as if you just tossed the statements without opening them from your mailbox.   

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2 minutes ago, Bulldoger said:

Did you write something I don't see anything but my posted question. 

I posted it because when I had AMEX I did everything online.  So if they had online access it can be argued that they received the statements even if they never went online to view them same as if you just tossed the statements without opening them from your mailbox.   

Plaintiff has burden of proof right? I think defendant can deny he never got statements if he never got them and if he has proof of wrong address on the statements.

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1 minute ago, Jacknyc said:

Plaintiff has burden of proof right? I think defendant can deny he never got statements if he never got them and if he has proof of wrong address on the statements.

True, but if Defendant had access to the statements and Plaintiff can show with access records that he viewed or could have view them.  Even if he could not access them online nor received them Defendant was two months behind and used of card would have been cut-off already. It could be argued that Defendant had given up on the debt at that time and it would have made no difference whether or not the statements were sent to correct address.  Evidence being the defendant never called, wrote, or investigated whereabouts of the missing statements.   Plaintiff can show the interest and fees added were what was spelled out on the credit agreement and they are proper and owed to them.   Defendant was not harmed in any manner due to the clerical mistake on AMEX part. 

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38 minutes ago, Fightamex said:

Thanks Man that’s very helpful info. The complaint alleges charge account(ca) or line of credit(lc) instead of credit card . Looked up google, ca or oc have different meaning from cc. Does nt that give me right to dismiss the case?

Which did you have Charge Account where you carried a balance forward or line of credit where you had to pay balance off each month. 

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