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MTC Arbitration Granted


hdge4u
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there was no timeline on the MTC Arb @Bulldoger. yes it was a small claims carve out. the rush is to get this matter resolved on a technicality, and to ultimately respect deadlines. which it appears is not carved in stone. the matrix is somewhat revealed here. AAA gives them more than enough time to pay, and then closes the case. their next deadline is at least not too far off, so thats reasonable. 

the light case law research i did reveals that with a MTC ARB we can sit on that and the court has no power to force me to initiate arb. in fact, i could literally have waited until the SOL expires. https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-labor-report/you-compelled-arbitration-and-the-plaintiff-refuses-now-what 

unless the case is stayed, which i dont think it was. well too late, i initiated arb. 

a key piece of legal remedy is to bring the matter back into court.  

on the other hand. if arb is started and not paid, its a material breach. the best i could do is get the judge to declare a time table, but from my research, that doesnt even have teeth. the MTC Arb takes it out of court and with that, the time tables dont have to get respected, and yes waiting till AAA closes the case appears to be the only reasonable action i suspect to take.  

i am very appreciative for each of your posts, insights, and guidance. thank you @LaneBlane @Bulldoger

curious @Bulldoger where you on the original debtor boards, you seem familiar. i think you helped me on cases back then as well. either way, thanks y'all. 

 

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When do the SOLs expire?

There's nothing for you to do at this moment, unless you're hell-bent on messing things up when you don't seem to be holding a losing hand right now.  The ball is back in the JDB's court and they haven't even picked it up yet.

As I've said before, being patient is the difficult part.

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On 1/31/2024 at 2:36 PM, hdge4u said:

 

curious @Bulldoger where you on the original debtor boards, you seem familiar. i think you helped me on cases back then as well. either way, thanks y'all. 

 

Like my profile says I join March 24, 2021  when I got sued by jefferson capital luckily i found this site  help me get good settlement using arbitration.  Been sticking around helping when I can.  

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19 hours ago, LaneBlane said:

When do the SOLs expire?

There's nothing for you to do at this moment, unless you're hell-bent on messing things up when you don't seem to be holding a losing hand right now.  The ball is back in the JDB's court and they haven't even picked it up yet.

As I've said before, being patient is the difficult part.

SOL is TX is 4 years. your advice is well taken. FWIW its an OC. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

so the second deadline of feb 14 for the respondent (which is the OC) to pay their $375 part to initiate arb has come and gone with no response from AAA or the respondent. 

AAA sent a letter the DAY AFTER the first Jan 30 deadline, but nothing after the second deadline. =inconsistency and neglect

Either the respondent has paid or they're just playing the slow game. 

apparently time tables mean nothing in arb and its an arbitrary game of slow cooking like a brisket in Texas.  

I see 2 proposed paths here 

  • 1. Do nothing. (aka if you're looking, you're not cooking)
  • 2. Nudge AAA to close the case by writing the following: 
Quote

"I would request the AAA decide on the administration of this case as the first and second deadlines have come and gone without any resolution on the initial filing fees and time and money are of the essence." 

This is in response to the AAA language in their letter. This is the AAA words:
 

Quote

 

Please note: should the business not comply with our request by the above response date, we may decline to
administer any other consumer disputes involving this business and request that the business remove the AAA
name from its arbitration clause so that there is no confusion to the public regarding our decision.

If we do not timely receive the business’ portion of the filing fees, we will notify the parties that we have
administratively closed this case and refund any payment received from claimant. 

 

Those are some strong words asking the business to remove AAA from their arb clause. 

Option 1 seems weak and reactive whereas Option 2 seems strong and proactive

I would appreciate any feedback. 

 

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Both JAMS and AAA like to get paid.  
 

Which means, they will wait a long time before closing a case.  Deadlines for initial payment are suggestions rather than real deadlines.  
 

After a few months they will finally close the case.  Dumping the creditor as a client completely is an extreme step AAA will eventually do if this creditor makes a habit of not paying their fees.  
 

If you are not in a hurry, I would suggest the slow cooking route.  

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AAA just sent us notice they are closing the case based on the OC not paying. they also threatened the OC stating they will not be taking claims going forward that involve this OC. 

so i assume i take this letter back to the judge and ask for case dismissed with prejudice. what is the best way to proceed? 

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  • 2 weeks later...

total BS. i filed a motion to dismiss after the plaintiff totally violated the order for arbitration. the judge came back for an order to mediate! all i can do is object. anyone have additional ideas or strategies. this is so rigged. i had a valid motion to dismiss. 

so the plaintiff blows off the more costly arbitration and then is rewarded with "free" mediation. whats not to say the plaintiff knew this path all along. this is a serious up hill battle to come up with reasons and case law to "waive mediation". the motion to dismiss has not been denied, but now my position to negotiate has been totally weakened. this only proves, that it is best to wait for the judge to order mediation first and THEN take it to arb, instead of going backward. 

anyway, i need so solid case law or insight to get this mediation order waived which i have 10 days to do. 

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this whole arbitration strategy is flawed. if arbitration is compelled and the Plaintiff doesnt show there is no final arbitration award. now the Plaintiff gets to violate the order and show up in a venue where there is zero cost! there is no leverage to settle with the cost of arbitration. 

sure i can show up to settle, but i thought that if the Plaintiff violates the order, it would be grounds for dismissal. so im back to square 1 with no leverage for them to settle and they have leverage of bringing this to trial. the best i can do is object to mediation and request another motion to compel arbitration. 

what i learned is this. 

step 1 answer, hope the judge orders mediation, then object and compel arb. then hope judge dismisses and does not take the matter to trial. what a mess! 

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4 minutes ago, BackFromTheDebt said:

The problem isn’t the strategy, it’s the judge who simply decided to do whatever the hell he wants despite the law.  This happens way too often 

At mediation start with stating there is a standing order to arbitrate and a motion to dismiss has been filed for failure to follow court order.  Wouldn't you prefer a mutual dismissal than have to explain to judge why you disobeyed his/her court order. 

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58 minutes ago, Bulldoger said:

At mediation start with stating there is a standing order to arbitrate and a motion to dismiss has been filed for failure to follow court order.  Wouldn't you prefer a mutual dismissal than have to explain to judge why you disobeyed his/her court order. 

i like that approach. could i just leave the mediation at that? when they tell me to pound sand and start offering settlement at $.60 on the dollar? then what. it becomes their game again. how do i retain control of the process? next steps?  

an additional issue i have learned is that there is NO final arbitration order. which means....the judge gets to choose other forms of ADR alternative dispute resolution. such as mediation. 

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I am still confused about what exactly is going on with your case.  Your descriptions don't always seem to match exactly what is happening.  Was the case stayed while you sought arbitration?  Or was the plaintif ordered to take the case to arbitration?  It appears that you might be using words incorrectly, which causes confusion about the real details of your case.

You said that there is a small claims carve out in the arbitration section of the terms and condistions. If so, then the judge was legally wrong to compel arbitration, if that is what happened.  Even if you get through the mediation, and the judge signs your motion to dismiss, the plaintif has a good reason to appeal that.  I think you said that the OC is one of the two banks that is very aggressive in lawsuits and following throught to arbitration.  They won't be afraid of the expense to appeal.  Your best course of action was probably to not do anything after they didn't pay the arbitration fee and wait to see if they went back to court.  You can try to push to get an MTD signed, but IF the judge was legally wrong, that won't necessarily end the case.  On the other hand, if the judge realizes that he made a mistake and takes the case to trial, you will lose against an OC.  If it were me, I would use the current situation to negotiate a low settlement with them.  (Of course, I would have tried to settle before the lawsuit, and after whatever motion for arbitration was granted.)

I thought things were going to end up badly for you, then I was pleasantly surprised when you were granted a motion.  I am back to thinking that you are too optomistic about what is going on and what will happen.  I am not rooting against you, but it seems to me that you are pushing things straight towards a judgement against you.

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thank you for caring enough to provide your feedback. i am always grateful for assistance and learning to find ways to increase the chance of success. 

1. this bank is not one of the two banks. 

2. the arb agreement has language around "ordinary claim". where arguing that or making the case more complex could inherently weaken the small claims carve out premise. 

3. Judge granted my motion to compel formal Arbitration, (there is no language in motion about "staying" the case, i thought it was implied). Plaintiff did not comply with the order. I thought it reasonable to take action to dismiss when plaintiff violated a court order rather than be passive and do nothing. i did not know about the Final Arbitration Order nuance.   

4. since there is no Final Arbitration Order, the judge gets to choose other forms of ADR

so the Plaintiff gets an order to compel Arb, does not comply and now im at mediation which costs them $50 to participate in. I am honestly stuck and do not know what to do. 

i could really use strategies and tactics to work through this mess. 

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  • I thought I had read one of those two names in one of your posts.  I am probably mistaken.
  • Does the "ordinary claim" language look like this?:
    Quote

    “Ordinary Claim” means a Claim that meets (1) or (2) or both below. (1) A Claim where all of the following are met: (a)The only remedy sought for the Claim is monetary damages; (b)The recovery sought for the Claim is less than $25,000 excluding interest and costs; and (c) The only parties to any action to resolve the Claim will be you, us and/or Our Related Parties. (2) Any individual Claim filed in small claims court within its jurisdiction, as long as the Claim remains in that court

    If so, being in small claims court is defined as an "ordinary claim" in the terms and conditions.  An actual motion to compel arbitration arbitration could probably be appealed pretty easily.

  • I don't know what your "motion to compel" was.  You haven't posted a redacted copy of what the judge signed.You describe it, but haven't posted the language in it. I am not trying to put you down, but it is very difficult to understand exact meanings of what you say. (at least to me)  I think it might be that you are too emotional, and are trying to spin the discussion.  It might convince someone that you were wronged in the process, but if you want people to respond they need to know exactly what is happening not how you feel about things.

  • "since there is no Final Arbitration Order, the judge gets to choose other forms of ADR" does not make any sense.  The arbitration clause in the contract doesn't specify alternative dispute resolution.  If I am correct, it specifies arbitration with AAA.  Judges in many locations can force mediation before a trial.  That helps reduce the amount of time in front of the courts.  Like I said before, from the way you describe things I struggle to understand exactly what is happening in your case.  IF the judge ignored the language of the contract and compelled arbitration, then ignored the order to compel and the language of the contract to order ADR in place of a trial, I would be very nervous about having a trial with this judge.  IF the judge allowed you time to pursue arbitration, and is now forcing mediation before a trial, then the judge sounds competent.  I would also be nervous about having an OC trial with a competent judge.

 

Several people have given you advice.  People advised you to try to negotiate a low settlement since it is an OC.  You ignored that.  People advised you to simply wait after the OC didn't pay the arbitration fee.  You ignored that, and your action is what seems to have caused the case to start moving forward again.  I am not a lawyer, but my layman advice would be to try to negotiate a settlement before you reach the mediation date.  Other people might have different advice, but I have a feeling you are going to ignore all of it and do what you want to do anyway.

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1 hour ago, JohnJohn said:

I have a feeling you are going to ignore all of it and do what you want to do anyway.

Trust that feeling.  It is why quite a few seasoned vets stopped responding as it is a waste of time and effort.

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of course this is emotional. 

yes. that is the correct ordinary claim language

here is the language i included to support the motion to compel arb 

image.png.5e6ba8e0f8b750b92f6cae272a143e02.png

here is the order language that was signed

image.png.ebc64a4ab792487cf1bb7322bfacfd84.png

i made 2 attempts to settle. once after getting the motion to compel granted and another time before the 1st deadline to initiate arb. settlement counter came back at $.60 on the dollar.  

regarding "Final Arbitration Order" or lack thereof. this was brought to my attention from a 40 year trial lawyer. then i chatGPT'd it and got this. some of which include. 

image.png.a5cab92e6b3ca5efec5dcf3d057f0c44.png

image.png.780c477f8182fa57fff1cf9daeb18e91.png

 

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Once again, not a lawyer, but I don't have any understanding why the judge would sign that motion to compell.  It is factually incorrect.  The "ordinary claim" designation does not imply that arbitration takes precedense over small claims court.  In fact, the terms specifically say that small claims are exempted from the arbitration clause.  IF the judge ignored the language of the contract, then you should not be surprised that he is not enforcing a order he signed.  What are you going to base your arguments on if the judge is ignoring the law, ignoring contract wording, and ignoring his own orders.  If you continue with the case, you will either end up with a judgement against you, or a judgement in your favor.  The problem is that the OC has all of the information they need and they have the law on their side.  If you win, they can still apeal and will probably get it overturned.  I don't know what this OC will do, but I am certain that AmEx or Discover would apeal as far as they needed to.  Even if you win, it might not be over.  If you can reach a settlement, it will be over.

 

I had a large debt with one of the two big compaines. (over $30k)  I settled with them.  I had many conversations with two or three different debt collectors they hired.  My debt went back into their internal collections department.  I was pretty sure that the next step was going to be a lawsuit.  I called every two to three weeks with a settlement offer.  I started somewhere around 15%, and increased it every few weeks both to save more money and to try to find a sweet spot for them.  I didn't call every day.  I didn't pester them.  I called and told them that I had X amount of money and asked if they could take that as settlement in full for the account.  After three months or so, I finally had enough saved and made an offer that they accepted.

 

I think you are too emotional, and too eager to get this finished as quickly as possible.  If you had not filed your motion to dismiss, your file might have been "sitting on someone's desk" until it was too late to continue the court case and too late to file a new one.  If you want to try to settle, don't wait for them to give you a number you can agree to and don't call them every day trying to press them into a number you know they won't agree to.  You appear to be on a timeline now since mediation has been ordered, and maybe scheduled.  With that, you might not be able to wait two or three weeks between calls, but try not to look desperate.  I wish you the best of luck.

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On 1/31/2024 at 2:23 PM, LaneBlane said:

There's nothing for you to do at this moment, unless you're hell-bent on messing things up when you don't seem to be holding a losing hand right now.  The ball is back in the JDB's court and they haven't even picked it up yet.

As I've said before, being patient is the difficult part.

 

This is what I wrote at the end of January.  From my experience, it was the best advise I could have given.

Sometimes you need to let sleeping dogs lie.  If you wake them up, you need to be prepared for what may happen next.

 

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ha. i hear ya.  well now i know, the new and improved scheme. i have a few more cases working there way into the system, so ill get a few more times up at bat. back in the day, i beat back Citibank, overcome summary judgements and never settled. the game has changed and so will i. im in talks with a lawyer and considering hiring where he is proposing a path to dismissal in this kangaroo court. 

when AAA dropped the case, i was waiting to hear back on this forum and unfortunately was too impatient, i thought it was a no brainer to file that MTD. hindsight is 20/20

i also learned that creditors dont care about motions to compel arb, they just dont show up anymore. the judges are sometimes former collectors too. 

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