Company threatening to send to collections and report to CRAs over debt they agree I don't owe

[ccposter]

I was a bonded personal representative for an estate that closed in April 2025 in state where I don't reside.  The six month period for which the closing of the estate could have been challenged was over in Oct. 2025.  I still received another invoice for payment of $2460 for another annual bond payment that is due April 27 (today is March 13).  I sent the bonding company screenshots and a url of the court web site showing the estate was closed and on which date.  Two people at the company have agreed I no longer have liability requiring a bond but they are still claiming unless they get a specific type of order from the court saying the estate was closed they will send to collections and report.  My lawyer (he was notified by email about this by the bonding company on Dec 2 but blew it off) says this probate court does not issue the document that the bonding company wants and even states so on their web page where it posted the estate closing.  

At my prodding the lawyer has called the bonding company and he said they agree we are both correct I don't have any liability requiring a bond at this point but he will try to get a "certified" copy of the court's web posting to try to satisfy the company; any further attempt to get the specific type of document requested will require scheduling a hearing and further delay.  

My options as I see them:

- file complaint with the state bonding company licensing authority; problem is the state agency could rule in their favor which could block me from pursuing a FCRA / FDCPA action if needed (I have successfully sued under the FDCPA before and got a settlement of  $3600 in fed/state damages and CRA listings deleted)

- file state bar complaint against my lawyer asking them to tell him to pay the invoice amount to keep me from getting reported to CRAs and needing to go through challenging the debt etc. before suing, a bunch of trouble I certainly don't want to go through, then let him fight them to get his money back

Also I am a disabled vet certified as mentally disabled by four gov't agencies, and don't know if that will allow punitive damages should I need to sue. 

Thanks in advance for any help or comments.  

[flint]

I don't think an insurance/bonding company qualifies as a debt collector under the FDCPA.  

[ccposter]

No, they would send it to a CA.  But the FCRA applies to original creditors as well as CA, unlike the FDCPA  which only applies to CA.  

[LaneBlane]

I don't have any experience with your type of issue.  I ran your questions through Grok and received this response.  This is AI, so you should confirm this information on your own. 

 

This is a frustrating but fairly common issue with probate surety (bonding) companies. They often continue auto-renewing annual premiums and billing until they receive exactly the paperwork they want confirming the bond is fully released/exonerated. Your liability as personal representative ended when the estate closed in April 2025 and the 6-month challenge/contest period expired in October 2025. The court’s own website explicitly stating that they do not issue the extra document the company wants is strong evidence that no further order is required in that jurisdiction.

You do not have to pay the $2,460 invoice just because they threaten collections or a credit report. Here are the practical, step-by-step actions you can (and should) take right now—starting today, since the due date is April 27.

1. Get the strongest proof possible from the probate court (do this first)

• Call or visit the probate court clerk (or use their online request form) and order certified copies of:
  • The actual Order Closing the Estate / Final Order / Order of Discharge of Personal Representative (whatever their exact title is).
  • Any docket entry or minute order showing the estate is closed and you were discharged.
• Do not rely only on screenshots or the public URL you already sent. Certified copies carry more weight and often include the judge’s signature/seal.
• Ask the clerk (in writing/email) to confirm: “Does the court issue any separate ‘bond exoneration’ or ‘surety release’ order after closure, or is the closure order itself sufficient per court policy?” Print their response or website page that says they do not issue it.

Send these certified copies to the bonding company immediately (certified mail + email with read receipt).

2. Send a strong written demand to the bonding company

Draft (or have your lawyer draft) a letter that:

• References the two employees who already agreed you have “no longer have liability.”
• Attaches the certified closure order + the court website screenshot/page stating they do not issue the document the company wants.
• States clearly: “The estate was closed on [date], the challenge period expired October 2025, and liability terminated by operation of law and court policy. No further premium is owed. Cancel the bond effective immediately and confirm in writing within 10 days that you will take no collection action and will not report anything to credit bureaus.”
• Demands they provide the exact name and sample language of the order they claim to need (many companies back down or accept an alternative when forced to specify).

Send it certified mail with return receipt and keep copies. This creates a paper trail that protects you if they try collections.

3. Light a fire under your current lawyer (or get a new one)

Your lawyer dropping the ball on the Dec 2 email is unacceptable. Email or call today and say:

• “The bonding company is still billing and threatening collections/credit reporting despite two of their employees agreeing there is no liability. The court explicitly states on its website that it does not issue the document they want. Please immediately send the demand letter above or file a one-page petition/motion in the probate court for an ‘Order Exonerating the Bond’ / ‘Order Releasing Surety from Liability’ / ‘Order Confirming Discharge and Bond Release.’”
• If they still blow it off or say “the court won’t do it,” tell them you will seek new counsel for this narrow issue.

Many probate lawyers will handle just the bond-release petition for a flat fee of a few hundred dollars. Because you’re out-of-state, you can often do it pro se or hire local counsel in the probate state just for this. Courts routinely grant these orders even if they are not automatic—especially when the estate has been closed for nearly a year and the challenge period is long over.

4. Escalate to the regulator if they don’t back off quickly

Surety companies are heavily regulated by state insurance departments. If you don’t get written cancellation within 10–14 days:

• Ask the bonding company for their licensing state (or look it up on their website).
• File a formal complaint with that state’s Department of Insurance (or Insurance Commissioner) online. Use keywords like “improper billing of discharged probate bond,” “attempting to collect premium after court closure and expiration of challenge period,” and attach everything.
• Regulators hate this exact scenario and can force the company to cancel the bond and stop collection efforts fast.

5. Protect your credit and prepare for collections threats

• Monitor your credit reports weekly (free at AnnualCreditReport.com or Credit Karma).
• If they report the $2,460 or send it to a collection agency:
  • Dispute it immediately in writing (certified mail) as “not owed—probate bond liability terminated upon court-ordered closure.”
  • Under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and FCRA, they must investigate and usually delete it once you provide the court documents.
• Do not pay the invoice unless you write “Paid Under Protest – Bond Discharged – All Rights Reserved” on the check/memo and immediately sue to recover it (small claims or in the probate court).

6. Quick additional tips

• Call the bonding company again and ask specifically for the two employees who already agreed with you—get their names/emails and loop them into the written correspondence.
• If the bond is from a well-known company (Western Surety, Hartford, etc.), many have online portals or specific “estate closed” cancellation forms—ask for one.
• Total cost to fix this should be minimal (certified copies ~$10–50 + possible short lawyer consult). You should not have to pay the $2,460.

This almost always resolves once the company gets certified court documents + a clear demand letter (or regulator pressure). The fact that two of their own people already admitted no liability is huge leverage.

If you tell me the exact state where the probate was filed (the one where you don’t reside) and/or the name of the bonding company, I can give even more targeted steps (some states have very specific forms or statutes on bond exoneration). In the meantime, start with steps 1–2 today—you’ll be in a much stronger position before April 27.

[ccposter]

LaneBlane - 

 

Thanks so much.  I called my lawyer on Friday 3/13 and he on his own suggested getting a certified copy of the estate closure statement. He said that would take several days and he would email it to them and cc me, so I have to wait on that.   He also said anything further would require scheduling a hearing.  The state where the estate was in was Missouri, and the bonding company is CNA Surety, based in South Dakota I believe, and the local agent is a State Farm office, in case you would care to run this through Grok again and repost.  Thanks so much for the help.  

[LaneBlane]

You're welcome.  I'm happy to help.

You can ask specific questions at grok.com or google.com.  Grok is starting to really limit the number of inquiries you can make before setting up a paid account or allowing some time to pass.  I have a paid account, so I don't think I have a limitation.

Here's Grok's response with the additional information.  Again, this is AI.  You should confirm the accuracy of this information.

---

The situation you're describing is a common friction point in Missouri probate cases involving independent administration, where the estate closure process doesn't always align perfectly with what surety companies like CNA expect for bond release. Based on Missouri statutes (particularly RSMo §§ 473.837 and 473.840) and standard practices for probate bonds, here's a breakdown of the key facts and potential paths forward. I'll stick to publicly available information from legal resources and avoid giving personalized legal advice—your lawyer is already handling the specifics, so this is for context.

Missouri Probate Closure Types and Bond Implications

Missouri allows estates to be administered "independently" (unsupervised by the court) if the will permits it or all heirs/devisees consent. Within independent administration, there are two ways to close the estate:

• Non-Judicial Closing (RSMo § 473.840): This is the more streamlined option. The personal representative files a "Statement of Account" with a proposed distribution schedule after the creditor claim period (6 months from first publication of letters). Notice is given to interested parties, and if no objections are filed within 20 days, distribution can proceed. Discharge of the personal representative happens automatically ("by operation of law") if no court proceedings are initiated within 6 months of filing the statement. No formal court order of discharge is issued. The court's role is minimal, and many probate divisions explicitly state on their websites or in manuals (e.g., Jackson County, St. Louis County) that they won't provide a discharge order in non-judicial closings.
• Judicial Closing (RSMo § 473.837): This involves filing a petition for complete settlement after the claim period. The court reviews the final settlement, holds a hearing if needed, approves distribution, and issues a formal "Order of Discharge" (or similar decree) releasing the personal representative from liability. This is often used when court oversight is desired or required for specific reasons, like satisfying third parties.

Probate bonds (required under RSMo § 473.157 for personal representatives unless waived) protect the estate from mismanagement. They remain in force until the surety is satisfied that all duties are complete and liabilities are cleared. Sureties like CNA typically require proof of release, and their guidelines (from public documents and their website) state that probate bonds "usually require a court order to terminate our liability," such as a "Final Order of Discharge." Without it, they won't cancel the bond, leading to renewal demands or collections threats—even if everyone agrees there's no ongoing liability.

From what you've described, it sounds like your estate used non-judicial closing (common for independent administrations), which explains why the court doesn't issue the exact document CNA wants. The 6-month challenge period ending in October 2025 aligns with § 473.840's timeline for automatic discharge. However, sureties aren't bound by the automatic discharge and can insist on a court-issued order as evidence.

Why the Bonding Company Is Pushing Back

• CNA's position is standard for sureties: They underwrite risk and need ironclad proof (e.g., a court order) that the estate is fully settled and they're off the hook for future claims. Screenshots or URLs from the court website showing closure might not suffice because they're not official, certified documents explicitly discharging you.
• Even if CNA reps verbally agree there's no liability, company policy often requires the specific order to close out the file and stop renewals. This isn't unique to CNA—other sureties (e.g., via general guidelines from sources like the Surety & Fidelity Association) follow similar protocols.
• The local State Farm agent might be following CNA's lead, as agents handle placement but the surety controls cancellation.

Options to Resolve This

Your lawyer's approach (starting with a certified copy of the court's posting) is a logical first step to test if CNA will accept a less formal alternative. If that fails, here are factual next steps based on Missouri law and probate practices:

1. Petition for Judicial Closing/Discharge Order:
   • Under § 473.837, even in an independent administration, you can file a "Petition for Order of Complete Settlement" at any time after the claim period. This requests court approval of the final settlement and a formal discharge order.
   • Process: Your lawyer files the petition, provides notice to interested parties, and may need a short hearing (often 15-30 minutes). If everything checks out (e.g., no unresolved claims, taxes paid), the court issues the order.
   • Timeline: Could add 1-3 months, depending on the county's docket (e.g., faster in smaller counties like those in rural Missouri). Costs might include filing fees ($50-100) and attorney time.
   • Forms: Available on the Missouri Courts website (courts.mo.gov) or local probate division sites (e.g., Form 10210 for petition in some counties). Examples include "Order Discharging Fiduciary" (Form 10594 in Jackson County manual).
   • Why this works: It gives CNA the "specific type of order" they want. Many estates switch to judicial closing post-non-judicial filing precisely for bond release or title issues.
2. Escalate with CNA:
   • Contact CNA's claims or underwriting department directly (via their website cnasurety.com or phone 800-331-6053) to confirm requirements. Provide your bond number and ask if they'll accept alternatives like:
     • A certified court clerk's statement confirming the statement of account filing and no proceedings within 6 months (proving automatic discharge).
     • An affidavit from your lawyer attesting to closure under § 473.840.
   • If they're inflexible, note that Missouri law limits surety liability to 2 years post-bond filing in some small estate contexts (§ 473.097), but this may not apply here.
3. Other Considerations:
   • Collections/Reporting: If CNA sends to collections or reports to credit bureaus, you could dispute it as invalid (since liability ended), but that might require small claims court in South Dakota (their base) or Missouri. Document all communications.
   • Costs: Bond premiums are estate expenses (RSMo § 473.153), so any renewal fight shouldn't come out of your pocket personally.
   • Tax/IRS Angle: If not already done, file IRS Form 5495 (Request for Discharge from Personal Liability) for estate taxes—this isn't for the bond but adds closure evidence.

If the certified copy doesn't satisfy them, pushing for the judicial order via hearing is likely the cleanest resolution, as it matches what sureties routinely accept. Check your specific county's probate division website (e.g., via courts.mo.gov) for local rules/forms, as procedures vary slightly by circuit.

[ccposter]

Thanks again.  My lawyer emailed yesterday 3/16 said the judge would issue a signed "memorandum" that would theoretically settle the issue.  It would not have the same name as the document/order they are claiming they want but should carry the same legal weight.  

[LaneBlane]

8 hours ago, ccposter said:

It would not have the same name as the document/order they are claiming they want but should carry the same legal weight.  

I hope they accept the judge's signed memorandum so this can all be put to rest.  Good luck to you.

[ccposter]

Today 4/2 my lawyer got the judge's memorandum from the court and sent it to the company by email cc'ing me.  Predictably it had been ready for some time and the court did not notify him nor did he check sooner (and only after I called him again).  He says they told him this is what has been done before in cases similar to this, so supposedly it will work.  There are 16 full working days left before the April 27 deadline for this to get processed.  He told me not to pay to avoid a collection action and then sue to get it back because paying is admission a debt was owed.  He also said I would have to sue in Missouri under FDCPA/FCRA if I needed to, which I don't agree with because the company does business through over 60 agents in Oregon which from what I know from a previous suit I filed should be sufficient minimum contact with the jurisdiction to sue here.  He just got a huge inheritance and is shutting down his law practice so will probably be of no further help.  

 

[LaneBlane]

With any luck, they'll accept the judge's memorandum and that will be the end of it.  If there's a problem, they'll reach out to your attorney's office.

Did your attorney provide you with notification that they were closing their practice, as well as instructions on how to obtain and pick up your file? 

[ccposter]

Thanks for continued help.  I am attaching screenshot of judge's memorandum.  I think it plainly states a case for willful violation of FCRA if needed as it cites state law covering the situation.  I believe it would allow for total of $9000 in actual damages total against OC, CA and CRA before even getting to punitives under FCRA or fed/state disability law as I am a mentally disabled vet with disability determinations from four agencies, two state and two federal.  I would advise them of them of that if I need to validate and dispute.  Apparently SOL under FCRA is two years, rather than one with FDCPA.  

I believe shutting down of practice is not imminent at this point. The AI assessment says to schedule the hearing for the formal order if they don't accept this, but I don't think this guy will want to do it, plus the memo may be all that's needed for legal purposes.  He agreed with me that I shouldn't risk filing a complaint with a state insurance regulator because they might just rubber stamp an approval of their action.  

[LaneBlane]

I saw the document.  I'd recommend deleting it for privacy reasons.

It appears you've been discharged from future claims as the Personal Representative   If they report anything to your personal credit, I'd recommend reaching out to a consumer credit attorney who handles FCRA claims.

[BV80]

 

Is this your personal debt?  If you are simply the personal representative for the purpose of another person’s estate, the FDCPA would not apply to you at all in this situation.

I agree with @lanechange45that if anything is reported on your personal credit, and it is not removed after you file a detailed dispute with the CRAs (along with proof), contact a consumer attorney.  

[ccposter]

Update:  while going through my plethora of scanned documents for this matter, I came across the original bond application.  Buried in the fine print it says that any bond (the form is generic for all types) can be cancelled by sending a registered mail request to their office at a certain zip code in S. Dakota.  Doesn't even give the address (which I looked up), so obviously they are trying to make it as hard as possible.  So this should theoretically solve the problem, or at least be more ammo for disputing with CRA if that becomes necessary since I will have proof of delivery.  

They sent me a "final notice" invoice postmarked the same day they got the email from my lawyer with the judge's memorandum attached, so apparently they are not going to accept that, though they have not explicitly said so.  

[LaneBlane]

4 hours ago, ccposter said:

I came across the original bond application.  Buried in the fine print it says that any bond (the form is generic for all types) can be cancelled by sending a registered mail request to their office at a certain zip code in S. Dakota.  Doesn't even give the address (which I looked up), so obviously they are trying to make it as hard as possible.  So this should theoretically solve the problem, or at least be more ammo for disputing with CRA if that becomes necessary since I will have proof of delivery.  

I'd send a cover letter to that address that asks them to cancel the bond.  Attach the Judge's memorandum.  Make certain you send this certified mail return receipt to their office which is in that given zip code.

This will definitely give you another layer of protection in case you need to dispute this with the CRAs.

[ccposter]

Update:  This may be ending with a whimper instead of a bang.  Today I got a call from my lawyer saying he had just talked to the company and he said they were cancelling the bond in response to his emailing of the judge's memo.  I asked if he got the name of the person he talked to or asked for written confirmation.  No and no.   He then emailed them again asking for something written with a bcc to me and the following came back:  "This bond has been closed based on the court release that we received.  There is no further premium due."  That's it, no bond number with it or anything.  

Yesterday I talked with the Missouri AG consumer affairs office and believe I understood them to say that I could file a trial balloon complaint that they would contact me about before proceeding to make sure there would be a ruling in my favor and not a rubber stamp that could be used against me legally.  I may still have to do that to get some kind of legal determination since I think this company has a left hand does not know what the right hand is doing problem and I wouldn't be surprised to still get this on my credit reports. 

I talked with an Oregon lawyer yesterday who helped me quite a bit pro bono four years ago and he said that here when an estate is closed the judge issues an order cancelling the probate bond and ordering a pro rated refund of the premium, which apparently does not happen in Missouri.  

I spent $90 on postage for two registered letters and a certified.  One of the registereds turned up in New York instead of S. Dakota, the other has not moved out of the local PO in four days.  The certified is supposedly still in transit.  

[LaneBlane]

15 hours ago, ccposter said:

I spent $90 on postage for two registered letters and a certified.  One of the registereds turned up in New York instead of S. Dakota, the other has not moved out of the local PO in four days.  The certified is supposedly still in transit.  

I hope the $90 included the cost to have the letters prepared and signed by an attorney.  Wow! 

Is there a reason why you sent two of the letters Registered?  I've always thought of Registered Mail as something you use to ship high-value items, not just to certify the other party received your item.

15 hours ago, ccposter said:

He then emailed them again asking for something written with a bcc to me and the following came back:  "This bond has been closed based on the court release that we received.  There is no further premium due."  That's it, no bond number with it or anything.  

If your attorney was thorough, he would have included the bond number in the subject line or somewhere in the text of his email.  This would at least tie the bond number to their response.  If he didn't include this information, I believe you can make the argument... what other bond could it be?

 

[ccposter]

 

This is Day 77 with no contact from a CA since the payment deadline and apparently no action was triggered at the 30 or 60 day points. According to the bv80 post from 2021 linked at the end of this text, a change to FDCPA by the CFPB (a much needed clarification of a grey area as I remember) is that CAs now have to contact debtor before posting with CRAs. My credit reports continue to be clear and are checked weekly.

Why I still was/am concerned: On the same day and at about the same time my lawyer got the email saying they would not pursue with a CA (from a group email account no name attached), I got what I now know was a spoofed call from the FedEx customer service number asking to verify my apartment number. Spoofing of this number is apparently a common CA tactic. Supposedly something was out for delivery. I asked who it was who was supposed to be sending me something and the female caller said “JPMC”, which is how my Chase CC accounts are identified with the CRAs which the CA could have accessed. A male voice in the background said it was Chase, which makes me think the call came from a boiler room operation. I did not think to ask for a tracking number. I never received anything from FedEx. I went to a Chase branch and they said they had no reason to send me anything and that they exclusively use UPS, never FedEx. So this was a scam call and have to believe was related to the bond company.

Possibly they planned to pursue through the CA that called in spite of the email but changed their mind after they got my two certified and registered letters and they realized I had actually read their sales contract. In any case no CA action has been taken. I have two USPS proof of delivery cards marked “Signature on File” rather than signed, which is apparently routine.  

URL for post about revision to FDCPA:

https://www.creditinfocenter.com/community/topic/335317-cfpb-has-added-new-rules-to-the-fdcpa/